What We Love and Don't Love about Warhammer 40k 8th Edition

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TranquilDarkness (6 days ago): - delete
Naturally the riptide rant is in it
He's not wrong tho.. makes no sense

MorglumNecksnapper (6 days ago): - delete
Matt, under Tools of War it states you measure distances from base to base. If you don't have a base you measure from the hull, and as you say some models require you to measure from the model, so you measure from the model.

So when you ask around 36:20 'what is it', it seems the above answers that question.

That you (and me) find it weird that a wraithknight can't get into combat with snipers on the upper level of a ruin isn't a case of the rules not being clear.
It is a case of we are used to it being possible, we find it should be possible. But again, the rules make it clear you just can't do it.

Until hopefully a FAQ


AsterionMoloc (6 days ago): - delete
Another gun that didn't double shots that used to be twin linked. Exterminator autocannon. Used to be 4 shots twin linked, now just 4 shots. The worst leman russ got even worse somehow, when it could have been decent.

side note, why the hell can't anyone except bullgryns buy better armour saves now? (guardsman veterans, inquisitorial acolytes and inquisitors, ork boyz, ect ect)
still great, but I cannot think of explenations for the above

fthorup (6 days ago): - delete
I no longer play (started at 2. edition) and no longer have a club or friend nearby - BUT I love watching this being played. Like sports for me.
And 8. edition is a lot of fun to watch, also easier to follow on the rules part, especially compared to 7. edition...

I would love to have more strategy discussion - that I am sure you have off camera - just have them/some on camera.
Why can we not see the discussions in between?

KWScott (5 days ago): - delete
Hey, Matt... I think Quirk has the right idea on the Invul saves for Harlies... Think about it this way... The Holo Suit makes images that make you think the target is somewhere it's not... A 4+ Invul is like having a second, holographic Harlie, and you have a 50/50 shot at hitting the right one... The Invul is better than a simple to-hit roll, but cause you thought you DID hit him... but you hit the holographic projection instead... And, Cegorach Laughs at your anguish. A Solitare, with his 3 Invul, just has a better suit that makes 3 of him instead of 2... It's like Mirror Image from D&D.

taranmain (6 days ago): - delete
Matt! I just reread the Tyranid rules and for example the Hive Tyrant can exchange "ONE/BOTH pairs of monst. scything talons" for "ONE/TWO item from the monstrous Bio-Cannons." Go back to the Wargear at the front of the Tyranid portion of the index and under the M Bio Cannons, ONE Bio Cannon option has TWO deathspitters with slimer maggots or TWO devourers with brainleech worms! Hope this makes sense!

mmsolo (5 days ago): - delete
Just want to say, the french version of the rules use "points de vie" meaning "health points" on units profil, and "blessure" meaning "wounds" for rolls. That's way clearer !

FlipmodeSH (5 days ago): - delete
I prefer that Heavy D Scythes have a profile that is different to other weapons. It was the only one of its type in 7th edition and makes sense to repeat that, and brings it closer to a normal D Scythe in how it operates.

rLadia (6 days ago): - delete
Performing rerolls before modifers helps keep the strength of unit abilities consistent. A space marine hitting on 3+ and rerolling fail hits will now only allow rerolling 1s and 2s. If you apply the reroll after modifiers, the ability to reroll failed hits becomes stronger and the negative modifiers become weaker as more negative modifiers are applied. Rerolling before modifiers means both abilities are always consistent in how effective they are.

Rerolls before modifiers also reduce the amount of interactions between abilities and modifiers which could have unintended consequences. If a new psychic power gave 1 armor save modifier, and some other character provided rerolls of failed armor saves, now you're back to 2 rerollable saves. Rerolling before modifiers prevents situations such as these.

Tanks being locked in assault seems very fluffy. All of the war movies show tanks being escorted by infantry as well (which is also how to prevent tanks from being locked in combat in wh40k!). I do think tanks should have more methods of handling assaults, but even that could be explained in a fluffy way. A squad of infantry assaulting a tank isn't just standing at the doors bashing it in; they're surrounding it, running from cover to cover, providing distractions, and looking for weakspots. It makes sense that tanks would have a hard time aiming their weapons or successfully hitting guys that are actively engaged in destroying the tank.

daveisdvd (6 days ago): - delete
Great review Matt. Totally agree about the Riptides being monstrous creatures still.

Other Comments

Aclys (2 days ago): - delete
A simple fix would be to allow anything with the vehicles keyword to fire Any kind of weapon it has in the shooting phase, even while engaged in combat much as if they were pistols BUT they take a -1 to hit while doing so.

zam664 (2 days ago): - delete
Power ratings are the best. Points are just too annoying for non-tournament play.

Izathel (4 days ago): - delete
Page 176 of the rulebook (admittedly in a sidebar) says that all measurement is always to the base. You only measure from the hull in the case that there is no base. There doesn't appear to be any lack of clarity there.
MiniWarGaming (14 hours ago): - delete
Yeah, I noticed this later, although it still doesn't clarify what to do with things like Land Speeders where the base is much smaller than the model.

Scheppo (4 days ago): - delete
I have to agree on the re-rolls. Working with "natural rolls X" is much more elegant and intuitive. Fixes what they were trying to fix except in a straight forward way.

I know unspecific re-rolls would be stronger this way but you can always adjust units and their abilities if things might get out of hand to the point where you just don't dish out unspecific re-rolls.

And don't get me started on that supercharged plasma thing... That's not very clever imho.

DickCools (4 days ago): - delete
Oh and it's nice I can now more or less officially bring Hive Fleet Bob. I love my Hive Fleet Bob.

DickCools (4 days ago): - delete
The one thing Matt didn't mention and I would like to is that I really like the way they developed the new rules. Less arrogant and actually listening to what the playing community seemed to want. Or at least their interpretation of it. That's actually A HUGE thing. I honostly think they would have gradually shrivelled up if they hadn't.

Krothu (4 days ago): - delete
Steve in the backround is awesome

gwarsh41 (4 days ago): - delete
Riptides are vehicles that look like monsters, Heldrakes are monsters that look like vehicles.

Ooooh well. Maybe riptides are leke EVA suits?

T3kn0man (4 days ago): - delete
I think they are actually from a design perspective why there isn't universal rules is a method of future proofing. If they for example add something that modifies a specific unit they want it to be specific rather than cross unit. It makes it harder now (in the sense you brought up) but down the road they can effect/update individual data slates rather than a universal dump. Kinda like it's hard to build a foundation initially, but add on later would be easier. Hope that helps. I see your point though. Happy Wargaming.!

gshergill (4 days ago): - delete
@taranmain That still leads to a max of 12 shots. One pair of talons for two devourers, or two pairs of talons for four devourers - each devourer is 3 shots.

Sklodo (4 days ago): - delete
Flames are new awsome weapon unless you are an ork . d3 hits instead of d6 every other flamer have :/.

Biggzzor (5 days ago): - delete
Matt, have you noticed that Stormsurge is vehicle though?

buttmunch (5 days ago): - delete
Also, new 40K sounds like an absolute clusterf**k. 40K fanboys will defend it no matter what and try to justify sloppily written rules by blaming players for trying to exploit interactions, but the fact is that well written rules are MORE conducive to casual gaming.

buttmunch (5 days ago): - delete
With Warhammer TV emerging as the whale in the market I wonder if MWG will expand beyond non-current GW games? I find it inexplicable that in the 'golden age of gaming' MWG ignore fantastic systems such as Infinity, Warmachine, Bushido, X-Wing etc. etc. etc., and, more importantly, ignore those potential customers. If it wasn't for Old World Wars, as a vault member who doesn't play any current GW games there would be no content for me, and I'm sure I can't be alone. Come on guys, get the new employees involved in something other than GW.

gregoryrigler (5 days ago): - delete
Thanks for that review Matt. I had grave reservations about 8th but now I'm much more enthused about it.

Peripheral (5 days ago): - delete
Matt, GW really should bring you in to alpha test/reviewnext edition/update

Rustyeh (5 days ago): - delete
Great video. Just found it funny how you compared vehicles taking damage and getting weaker with a Carnifex, who is one of the only big monster that doesn't get weaker when getting wounds.

dan1789 (6 days ago): - delete
ONE broadside with all those TWIN shots is over 200 points

dan1789 (6 days ago): - delete
The matched play deployment rules are in the only paragraph on the deployment pages. I don't know how so many people missed it.

dan1789 (6 days ago): - delete
Re-rolls explained IMO:
All I have to know are the rules on my datasheets. you know the rules on your datasheet. I roll my dice, I reroll my misses. I tell you my hits. You inform me that your unit applies a -1 modifier to hit. I now tell you my new number of hits. It makes each person responsible for knowing less rules.

Zustiur (6 days ago): - delete
I think the thing which annoys me most right at this moment is the emphasis on having to have more than one HQ. It's forced me to change all of my armies - or suffer heaps of -1 CPs to fit my old army into the new detachments.

Zustiur (6 days ago): - delete
I totally agree about the Universal Special Rules. I'm now re-writing the game (a hobby of mine anyway) to include them.

As for your devourers, I understand why it looks weird coming from 6-7th ed, but have a look at the stats for a regular devourer. The twin devourers get 6 shots because they are 2x3 shot devourers. Brainleech worms now just increase the strength - as they should. They no longer increase the strength AND double the shots (for no good reason). What I'm saying is I think they should have been 3 shots already. That would have brought them more in line with the other weapons available on hive tyrants.

mkon454 (6 days ago): - delete
Matt, also for Astra Militarum, the Exterminator Autocannon on the Leman Russ used to be Heavy 4 Twin-Linked in its weapons profile for 7th. But now it's just Heavy 4 in 8th edition so I feel the same way like with the Devourers. However, I still like the edition overall.

Mercury-Nascent (6 days ago): - delete
I think that this vehicles in close combat situation ... is kind of the polar opposite 'at launch' ... to what 6th/7th did... where simple RH1N0 chassis vehicles were tank shock deleting almost anything in sight ... beyond the simple Gretchin or Conscripts ... which you can imagine ... a tank barreling through a confused c group of pathetic Conscripts could be carnage ...

But Daemon Princes , and Dreadnoughts, and I think Riptides ... and certainly Chapter Masters ... we're being driven over and denied escape and removed from play ... causing 35 point Rhinos to delete hundreds of points of army ... through movement ...

It was fixed eventually ... but before it was fixed ... I think it was really bad...

This seems like the opposite problem ... with Vehicles seeming defenseless now ... fancy Covered Wagons from the good ole' days ... just unit character the horses and they aren't moving ...

And maybe that explains it... maybe it's a mechanic that spilled over from Age of Sigmar? Are there still glorified horse drawn buggies in fantasy ?

Ox carts?

Daemon or Ork beast warmachines... ??

Because those actually do make sense... surrounded by Infantry that have killed the driver or severed the reins ... the wagon can't move on its own ... absent an engine and driver inside...


But that's what your complaint scenarios seem like to me right now ... descriptions of how easily a single model could immobilize a horse drawn wagon ...


Mercury-Nascent (6 days ago): - delete
I was reading about the Baneblades ... and variants ... which seem to have exceptions ... specific exceptions ...to the melee issue... how a few Gretchin or Conscripts effectively immobilize and disable most if not all firing of the vehicle ... tarpitting a tank in the edition that has tried to make tarpitting Gretchin with death company or Tyranids or daemons ... more difficult ...

The Baneblades. .. seem to be able to fire big guns out ... ignoring the melee... and fire ... smaller weapons into the enemy melee in defense... and have lethal treads to attack with .

Also, the Imperial Knights can walk right out goring the models... and basically anything that GW did not want to be able to be locked in melee has Fly , or an exception.

So it's not,as if the concept of how to write rules and exceptions did not occur to them...

So either GW intentionally wants Landraiders and RH1N0 chassis vehicles to be functionally immobilized by even a small number of infantry models ... (which is not justifiable in any real life combat comparison ... infantry does not generally fare well as a wheel chock to treaded tanks...)

Or there is a typo somewhere...

I feel like, from the leaks we saw in the Warhammer Community previews, that GW 'intended' tarpit ting to be difficult ... or extremely difficult ... to the point that you must deny the fleeing model any space to escape to...

I feel like they meant to say that the fleeing model could ignore the enemy models it was engaged with ... for the sole purpose of measuring it's retreat move... while still respecting the core rule that it could not finish it's move on top of another model... etc...

So the vehicle could drive away from the Conscripts surrounding it ... if... and only if... there exists a LEGAL placement for it to finish it's movement ... but it could ignore the enemies that had charged it to escape them... or some version of that ... a tank could ignore the bikes and infantry , which would just shuffle around it as it ,maneuvers to escape (a realistic example) but could be blocked by other vehicles, impassable terrain ... or ... in the realm of our games... prevented from, escaping the infantry around it... if there were simply so many dozens of models surrounding it that it had no place to go ... ( no place to finish it's move that respects the normal movement rules)

This would still fit with the exceptions which we have seen ... because of the standard consequences of retreating from melee... disengaging from assault ...

An inability to shoot or advance or charge etc...

The Fly exceptions allow nimble escape and continued shooting ... the Imp.Knights don't seem affected at all , they do whatever they please... the ... is it Harlequins ? Who can disengage to escape and can then shoot back in and can even still charge back into the combat they just left ... ??

And the Baneblade exceptions would still work ... even if all you allowed was for a boring RH1N0 to drive away from surrounding Gretchin rather than it becoming immobilized from ... what ... indecision as to which greens kin to drive over? Or is it concern from tracking Ork spores across the Imperium ? Some new quarantine procedure ...

If your vehicle has been touched be greenskin Ork Xenos filth... do not move... until the Inquisition sends a Flamer squad to incinerate the contaminated armor, and purify the tainted vehicle?


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About this Content
MiniWarGaming's Avatar Author: MiniWarGaming
Added: June 17, 2017
Rated: 12345 (16)

Now that we've played a lot of 8th edition 40k games, I want to talk about what we all love and what we all don't love about it.

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