Latest 9th Ed Rumors - MODEL PICS ADDED / RULES PICS TOO

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Latest 9th Ed Rumors - MODEL PICS ADDED / RULES PICS TOO

Post by TigerDave » Tue Feb 24, 2015 7:06 pm

The following are the current rumors floating around regarding the WHFB 9th Edition starter set. Harry over at Warseer (who has a pretty solid reputation for being spot-on regarding rumors) is tap-dance-confirming this as pretty reliable. That being said, seems a tad early for me for starter set rumors.

Chaos
2 Warriors of Chaos Units
1 Daemon Unit
1 Chaos Warmachine
1 Lord (Special Edition and Unique)

Forces Of Good
2 Empire Infantry Units
1 Empire Cavalry Unit
1 Elf Unit
1 Warmachine (Dwarf?)
2 Lords (Special Edition and Unique Mounted & Foot)

…with all of this alongside two rulebooks, a painting guide and an army lists book. Fluff wise this is all meant to be set inside a ruined city of the Empire and will focus in on small level skirmish games where the heroes and characters are key. There has also been rumblings of new modular plastic terrain that will be a big focus for this new version of the game.

(and yes, round bases are still rumored to be the new standard)
Last edited by TigerDave on Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:45 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by Dez » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:20 am

I like these rumors!
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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by TigerDave » Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:51 pm

SPOILER ALERT AT END OF POST - FLEE NOW OR NO WHINING!
[/b]

Adding to the "Latest Rumors" ...

Certain persons are claiming July for 9th, and I think that's what I am leaning towards.

HOWEVER ... about a year and a half ago, certain Spaniards had been foretelling the End Times with amazing clarity ... and we all scoffed! The same source of rumors is saying "End of April" for WHFB.

This would be amazing, but this period of time is also glutted with some serious WH40K rumors (Plastic 30K edition, separate game rules, limited time of product but models fully usable in 40K as well, Adeptus Mechanicus, Space Marines, Tau ...), I just can't see how they can fit it all in.

SPOILER:
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They DEFINITELY destroy the Old World in End Times: Archaeon. Make no mistake, there is NOTHING LEFT.

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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by Hedonismbot » Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:28 pm

Yeah I saw the leaked page too. Sad, just sad they're completely throwing away 3 decades worth of background and content. Even the so called "bubblehammer" folks were going on about for weeks may have been preferable to this. Hopefully there's something equally cool to fill the void.
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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by ParanoidEngineer » Fri Mar 13, 2015 7:38 am

For the uninitiated, what is 'bubblehammer' exactly? I was imagining Battlestar Gothic with chunks of Lustria piloted by Lizardmen in big oxygen bubbles fighting Daemons in space, but I'm assuming I'm slightly wide of the mark.
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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by Hedonismbot » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:50 am

It was wildly thought that the fantasy world would be broken up into chunks all separated by the warp/realm of chaos and each section of land would be like a little pocket of reality floating around in the void. Occasionally, these "bubbles" of reality would collide with another, thus allowing the residents to come in contact with one another, so any army could fight another one with no explanation as to why or how they met.
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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by ParanoidEngineer » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:28 am

Wow, I sincerely hope that isn't the next step for Warhammer given that most of the enjoyment comes from interesting and fluid politics between factions that you don't find in the 40k FFA. I can't really see how GW can write themselves out of this one unless they decide to go for the cop-out "but before all that other stuff this happened" malarky
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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by Epic Duck Mike » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:56 pm

"Karl woke up; he was still alive, still in his home. He looked out the window across the land, which still existed. He walked to town, and asked folk he passed about the End Times, about the rise of Nagash and the return of Archaeon - no one had any idea what he was talking about. It was all just a dream.

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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by Hedonismbot » Fri Mar 13, 2015 10:01 pm

ParanoidEngineer wrote:Wow, I sincerely hope that isn't the next step for Warhammer given that most of the enjoyment comes from interesting and fluid politics between factions that you don't find in the 40k FFA. I can't really see how GW can write themselves out of this one unless they decide to go for the cop-out "but before all that other stuff this happened" malarky

There will still be the usual back and forth between the factions, whenever this new world comes about. It's just the way they ended it all. Read the leaked content from the Archaon and was a bit disappointed. You'll have to judge it for yourself though.
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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by warmaster40k » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:31 am

*SPOILS, duh*




Is GW simply resetting the universe for gameplay purposes of the new edition? Or did the lore just get too complex to continue? I'm just baffled on this.
It's kind of dumb when you think about a whole new universe coming out of what the Archaon page hinted at the end. Obviously they're not going to discontinue Warhammer, but a reset universe wouldn't look the same as the last, and yet, unless they release a ton of new codex books with the new rules, you're going to have "old world" vs "new world armies". (Bretts might be stuck in the old world forever! ha)
Anyone else feel a little put off by this?

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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by ParanoidEngineer » Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:32 am

It is a real issue with GW's lore that they always end up with a "cataclysm bigger than any before it is coming guys whoa hold onto your hats" moment, which if they try and tackle will either end with a deux ex machina, everyone dying or the easiest option of just not finishing it.

I was kind of hoping the end of the End Times would be a twin-tailed comet appearing over Altdorf, then several more, upon which they are revealed as Drop Pods, just so that then we'd be able to keep the universe moving forward but with new context to the world and dramatically altered factions.

I hope they find a way to make the new world interesting and keep some of the old interactions alive. For one thing, how the hell can Tomb Kings and Vampire Counts survive? There won't be fresh corpses or tombs left now the world's gone kaput, and without them their numbers can't swell. For once we'll just have to have faith in GW's writing team, terrifying as the prospect is, and hope for the best.
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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by TigerDave » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:41 pm

The reasons as to killing off the Old World are many, and mostly conjecture. Consider the following assumptions:

1) Fantasy profits are so far down they considered scrapping the game entirely.
a) Rumors have it that Fantasy is only 8% of GW's portfolio. That's a lot of effort to maintain so small a profit.
b) An assumption is that the environment changes too slowly. Army updates change the force meta in terms of years (Bretonnia is how old? 10 years??). This means that X Army provides burst sales when it is updated, but doesn't provide steady sales over a period of time.

2) Entry into the game is too high, dollar-wise, due to unit size and composition.
a) Certain armies are easier to "buy into" than others. Horde-style forces require a lot of investment in order to get a decent unit, leading to units that cost more than $100 each to place on the table.
b) Customers are unwilling to try a game that costs so much for an initial investment.

3) Entry into the game is too high, effort-wise. Painting over a hundred figures just to get a basic starter force.

4) The Fantasy IP is not protectable. Elves, dwarfs, knights, etc. are all too generic.

When looking at these, it makes sense that they would want to completely reboot the game in order to make it profitable again.

Some things I expect to see (based on pure guesswork):

1) ALL forces are "squatted". You will still have certain armies, but expect the names and aesthetics to change. For example, take a look at the End Times releases. Instead of Chaos Chosen, you get god-specific forces like Blightkings and the new Khorne pieces. They're still "Chaos", but we haven't seen things like these before. I don't expect much to carry forward into the new game. This will allow GW to establish more IP protection on the game. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if the Blightking scale doesn't become more pronounced because most alternates companies aren't producing figures in compatible scale right now.

2) Scalability through Skirmish. I believe that providing a game that progresses in scalability is the way to go. You create a game that is enjoyable to play at the skirmish level that can grow WITH you as you advance with the game to massed army battles. Allows easier entry, but also provides for those "Apocalypse" moments when you get the chance go all-out. This covers both the cost and effort concerns nicely. For example, your starter box may contain a unit of 5 cav, a unit of 10 warriors, a second 10 warrior unit, and a war machine/monster*. You field these all in skirmish style, which means smaller starter investment, smaller effort to build and paint, AND they take up more footprint on the battlefield, giving the illusion of a much larger game. Lets say that you really like the first unit of warriors. You buy a second box, bringing your unit size up to 20. At this time, you may play them as rank-and-file, providing various tactical bonuses that you didn't get in skirmish. The game would grow with you as you added forces.

*I don't know if you have noticed, but it seems that GW is changing the "war machine" paradigm to a movable style of weapon. High Elf Bolt Thrower chariots, Dwarf "torpedo" Irondrakes, Stormvermin ... I think we will see war machines as a stationary platform largely reduced or eliminated from the game, making these mobile platforms the way to go, providing the same level of firepower but increasing their vulnerability.

3) Units have a limited shelf life. Think M:tG and other CCGs. They provide a regularly changing meta that encourages dedication to the game and an ever-shifting tournament environment. It's not that the units would go stale, you just won't see them on the shelf for longer than, say, six months. This allows GW to cast using cheaper mold metals, rotates the environment to provide more reliable sales other than bursts, and provides more "fresh" for us to buy and build. GW doesn't have to maintain long-term models that don't sell as well.

4) "Mini-games". I don't know how best to describe this. Think things like Stormclaw for 40K. They will most likely release random sets of small size that feature two specific forces and most likely will include a limited special character or something. They might even include alternate rules. Imagine a "Mordheim" style game, but rather with forces that you can actually add to your Fantasy army after the game popularity dies. The rumored 30K Plastic box goes along this line: You get 30K era figures and rules specific for that game. However, the models can just as well be added to your 30K Forge World or 40K armies just fine. Or, like Space Hulk.

All of this is pure guess. I have no idea what GW is going to do, and when you play the "Six Degrees of Separation from Nottingham" game with me you will find I'm probably out at 7 degrees and beyond. These, however, are things that I would expect based upon the rumors that I have heard.

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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by ParanoidEngineer » Sat Mar 14, 2015 5:27 pm

Wow, cheers for digging all that information up TigerDave, you're the hero this forum needs considering I don't have the patience to find the relevant stuff among the detritus!

To be fair I have no problem with updating the Fantasy world/system in this way, but what I am afraid of is GW dropping the current system entirely in terms of support.

Regardless of current sale drops, assuming the figures you have are correct (not that I doubt your information just erring on the side of caution) there are a ton of dedicated Fantasy players out there, and it'd a crying shame if the large scale Fantasy battles were dropped like a hot brick when a new system is introduced. I'd be happy with Fantasy going the way of Blood Bowl (although obviously not including the removal from stores and ending of production) and being left as a finished product, with semi-regular tournaments, whilst focus is applied to the new system.

As long as they keep the current system viable to purchase and play, I don't mind a skirmish mode or the destruction of the Old World, as long as it is integrated neatly into the new.
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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by TigerDave » Sat Mar 14, 2015 6:56 pm

In regards to the current system, here is the "good news". Please remember this is ALL rumors and conjecture!! I can't guarantee anything. I just watch, collate, analyze and then come up with what seems the most logical course of action.

The shock factor of 9th is the changing of armies and lore. The game supposedly takes place a couple hundred years in the future, giving enough time to "clear the slate" and have new armies and styles.

Gameplay, however, is supposed to be largely the same. Rumors have been strong that the change from 8th to 9th will be similar from 7th to 8th; you will see some changes and clarification that will change the meta some, but by and large the game remains the same.

What I expect to see, again, is that scalability added to the system which would allow 500 point games to be just as entertaining as 1500 point games. I expect some sort of skirmish element that allows you to adapt rank and file formations as well. I am told the old armies WILL be playable under 9th, it's just that the forces will never see new units, new lore, or new books. In fact, the idea is that you get 8th-pure, End Times armies, and then the "new hotness". Obviously, the "new hotness" will be the supported factions, getting new models, lore and rules, whereas the rest of it is "play until your models fall apart, but no new support." I believe the intent is to add a 'fractured reality' concept to the lore, where you have these various divergent realities coming together and overlapping, allowing a 'rational' reason why 8th Edition High Elves are facing off against 9th Edition Army X. You just won't see that supported; ie don't expect battle reports in WD/Visions to feature any such shenannigans.

Everyone will obviously have some very strong opinions, and I respect every one of them. I'm very emotionally attached to a few armies and the current lore myself. However, I think the future edition is going to provide goodness for everyone, and I think it's going to make what we should have been doing all along (playing what we WANT to play) more natural and inclusive. It is definitely going to hurt (I still cry at the end of Star Trek 6** when it uses the signatures for the actors as the credits) but I'm hoping it creates a better environment for gaming, new gamers, and continued enjoyment of the hobby.

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Re: Latest 9th Edition Rumors

Post by Guildenstern » Sun Mar 15, 2015 12:24 am

well I can't begin to grasp the overall impact of any of this, as I haven't been following warhammer long enough to quite understand where it's been, thus where it might be going etc. Heck I'm still trying to figure out the basic game.

That being said, I get the feeling from what I've read that they are looking toward skirmish level games and frankly that really excites me. As you said TigerDave, it's more entry level friendly and this is exactly where I'm coming from. Plus as a mom of three, it's probably likely to be shorter games, thus making it easier for all of us to coordinate some scenarios.

Anyway, very interesting as always! I do hope they continue with fantasy =/ I certainly prefer it to 40k (sorry guys!)
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