9 Inch Dreamforge Leviathans

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jj3
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Re: 9 Inch Dreamforge Leviathans

Post by jj3 » Fri Mar 29, 2013 9:27 pm

Warhounds do not have CC weapons as an option.

The Titan CC weapon can only be used against other Super Heavies or Gargantuan critters.

I have a GK Dreadknight that I'll put on a coffee cup, can I use that as an Imperitor titan? That would be so kool.

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Re: 9 Inch Dreamforge Leviathans

Post by bigoldfrog » Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:40 pm

"I have a GK Dreadknight that I'll put on a coffee cup, can I use that as an Imperitor titan? That would be so kool."

If Matt gives you the thumbs up. :D

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Randolph
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Re: 9 Inch Dreamforge Leviathans

Post by Randolph » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:37 am

That would have to be one big coffee cup. Why don't you just use it as a Knight Titan? It seems the appropriate size.
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Re: 9 Inch Dreamforge Leviathans

Post by jj3 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:50 am

Randolph wrote:That would have to be one big coffee cup. Why don't you just use it as a Knight Titan? It seems the appropriate size.
It's just me watching the cheese flow, I have 2 "proper" warhounds and a reaver that I'm bringing.

I'm just tired of people bringing models that could be represented by a datasheet that matches, but claiming they are something else because they feel the need for supreme power.

Warhounds do NOT have CC weapons of any sort, so claiming one is just wrong for the points. Reavers and up have CC weapons, and you pay the points for it to be used. I hope Matt will reconsider his approval.

Randolph, I still remember you wandering over to my table with pie plates in hand to give me gifts the first turn :)

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Re: 9 Inch Dreamforge Leviathans

Post by bigoldfrog » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:45 pm

@ jj3 I understand your lament at powergamers in a fun environment; it's like someone pouting at a festive dinner table.
But consider the titan close combat weapon. It is, in my opinion, the least powerful of all titan weapon choices by a massive margin. This is doubly true with the Warhound, who has not the void shields or structure points to cross the table to get into close combat.
Even if you think the TCC is an amazing choice, look at the augmented knight titan's other weapon; the Vulcan Mega Bolter- the source of puns about how unbalanced Apocalypse is. It's the least powerful of all Titan ballistic weapons, as agreed upon by almost everyone.

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Re: 9 Inch Dreamforge Leviathans

Post by ryank » Tue Apr 23, 2013 3:40 pm

Tyranid96 wrote:IMHO It would make a kickbutt Grey Knight titan y'know from Titan. It's Titanception (I'm sorry I'm bad)
I agree with you on this but true, GK's don't have titans.

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Re: 9 Inch Dreamforge Leviathans

Post by xtroopers9 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 4:38 pm

jj3 wrote:
kernbanks wrote:Agree with jj3, run it as a Reaver... I believer there is a variant without the top carapace weapon.
Reaver is 1450 with 3 weapons, Warhound is 750 with 2 (and no CC option). My FW warhounds legs are just over 8" tall, so this model at 8.5" (28mm variant) is about half as tall, and using the height as a guide it's only about 1/3 the width.

If I was your opponent and you were counting it as a reaver or even a warhound, I'd be pretty pissed. I would offer a suggestion that you just use the knight rules for these models as that is already approved and a much more fair representation of the models size.

This is the link I'm using for comparision:
http://www.dreamforge-games.com/catalog ... cts_id=204


It's just me watching the cheese flow, I have 2 "proper" warhounds and a reaver that I'm bringing.

I'm just tired of people bringing models that could be represented by a datasheet that matches, but claiming they are something else because they feel the need for supreme power.

Warhounds do NOT have CC weapons of any sort, so claiming one is just wrong for the points. Reavers and up have CC weapons, and you pay the points for it to be used. I hope Matt will reconsider his approval.

Randolph, I still remember you wandering over to my table with pie plates in hand to give me gifts the first turn

Except that GK doesn't have any titans, they are only for the Legios within the guard.

So if your keeping the cheese, put IG as an ally.
Except that GK doesn't have any titans, they are only for the Legios within the guard.

So if your keeping the cheese, put IG as an ally.
Not to start a flame war with you but aren't you the guy who ran the 3 titans with the huge all railgun TAU army? Then you posted that it wasn't fluffy to have it with his GK, you ran it with a all railgun TAU army. I wouldn't consider that fluffy at all, in fact a lot less fluffy than GK having titan themed support. I wouldn't give this guy a problem if he had it across the table from me and said that they were warhounds with tccw, in fact as a cron player there is a chance that he will be across from me. I 'm just saying that not everyone has enough money to actually buy FW titans, and that I personally love the new leviathan models, and if I didnt play crons would pick a couple up. Again not to start a big argument, it just seems that you are giving this guy a really rough time.
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Re: 9 Inch Dreamforge Leviathans

Post by jj3 » Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:33 pm

xtrooper9,

Yes I had the Tau army 2 years ago, but no it wasn't all railguns, actually not even half of it was railguns. All the models I used had GW/FW datasheets that relate to the model, including the scratchbuilt items I brought along. Those scratchbuilt items had no actual model ever released, except the ones GW made and photographed for the apoc book (pg 74) and for the white dwarf datasheet. With those photos, I had a reference to deduce an approximate size. I then errored toward being slightly larger to make sure things would line up and generally be in my opponents favor if a template scattered off but still was close.

Regarding the titans, they were paid for at full cost plus formation, and were allowed to be allies by the rules. I also have a theme/back story for my entire army as suggested by the apoc rules in the allies section. It's not a case of me calling a space marine dreadnaught a riptide with a shadowswords gun and only paying the points of a dreadnought.

Nowhere have I said that people have to fork out for a "real" FW titan, there are/were plenty of good looking paper and plasticard titans that year - the key point being they were very close to the same size/area and function. Scratchbuilding adds a lot of welcome variety to our hobby, and it's always great to see the variations out there.

What I have an issue with is people taking a model, ignoring that there is a decent datasheet to represent it, but wanting to pick and choose from multiple other datasheets to make it more powerful, and less costly in points. Combined with this model being significantly smaller in overall size/area compared to the warhound they are emulating, and it gives a significant advantage to the owner. It's harder to be hit, easier to find cover, more mobile, and harder to assault because there's a much smaller size/area to work with. Imagine if you shot your one and only deathstrike missile at it, and it somehow scatters 8" directly behind it... You would still have a good chance to hit a normal sized warhound, but you would miss the dreamforge model.

The Dreamforge site lists this particular model as 8.5" tall, both my FW warhounds measure about 8" from ground to waist joint, so that photo raises questions. Either the Knight model is about 2" taller than the Dreamforge site claims, or somethings amiss. The warhound in the photo looks about the same general height ratio as compared to the reaver, but it definitely looks narrower.

Height is only a part of the whole equation. If you were to get a top down view of that photo, you would most likely see the knight model is not even half of the depth of the warhound body.

What would I do if I wanted to run this great looking model "counts as" a warhound? First make a base to raise it closer to the warhounds height, make it's diameter large enough to be about the same size to hit as a warhound, and choose weapon options that a warhound can officially use from the datasheet. In the discussions above it was noted the titan CCW is "less powerful" than a normal weapon, I tend to disagree with that statement, but there's grounds to ask about using because it keeps the model conforming with the apoc WYSIWYG rule.

Many players will take the option of "all turbo lasers" on their titans because it's more powerful. It's a valid option according to the rules. I take the stance that in all the reference material I have read or researched, I've never come across a story where a titan was equipped with only turbo-lasers. I do generally take one per titan, though it means I'm not cheesing as much power as possible, the other weapons add a lot of flavor and fun.

My bottom line, if I want to use something that will "count as" something else, I put myself in my opponents shoes first. What concerns would I have playing against it, what would I get confused about, is it fair to me, does it conform to apoc WYSIWYG rules, and the real bottom line - would it still be fun to play against?

Now I'm off to try to figure out how to make 50 riptides out of recycled peanut butter and mayo jars!

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