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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:07 pm 
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New to 40k. Hearing rumors of a 6th edition coming out possibly within a month or two. Is it worth it for a new guy to wait until 6th edition drops to make any decisions and start dropping cash? Either way its AoBR for about 100$ or I buy boxes specific to a list for around 120$.

Whachu think?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 10:08 pm 
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do you want marines or orks?

thats the answer to your question

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 3:11 am 
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BewareOfTom wrote:
do you want marines or orks?

thats the answer to your question


He's not talking about just the type of units, but should he drop the money on a starting set in which a bulk of the money is going towards a rulebook that will soon be invalidated.

IMO, I would take a good look at all the armies in WH40k (either through online resources or in some sort of in-store "play through"), and figure out which best suits you. Then, I would go and make sure that they are a stable army (i.e. necron's just came out, they aren't changing any time soon, as oppose to the Tau, whom are rumoured to getting overhauled soon), and if everything checks out, buy that army's BATTLEFORCE.

Why? Well, if you buy BR, a good chunk will be wasted on the soon to be old rulebook, and the rest is split in half between the two races. Unless you have a friend who's splitting with you, it would be a waste as a beginner army, because your going to want to drop all the money on one race to maximize the purchase power.

Just make sure you pick the range of money you want to drop, the army, your ideal army list, and see how everything meets up.

For example, I recently got back in, and since I knew the new rules were coming out soon, as well as the fact that the Necron just were released, I went and bought two Battleforces and two Catacomb Command Barges to get enough units for a tourny ready 1500pts and enought to expand up to about 2k points.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:38 am 
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if you want to play as marines or orks buy it if you don't then just don't.
if you want to start another army just buy a 2 troop choices of that army or a troop choice and the codex and have fun.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:44 am 
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At this point in time, in my opinion, AoBR is not worth it for a new player. (The exception is if a player wants the type of Ork deffkoptas currently found in AoBR, and cannot get any from the 2nd hand market.)

The rumor mill is alive with contradictory rumors.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ost6190328 Here is a rumor about the release of the hardback 6th edition 40K rulebook on June 30th, as opposed to July 7th. If you are a new player with plenty of money to burn and you cannot wait for the 6th edition 40K starter set to get the mini rulebook, then set your sights on the hardback 6th edition 40K rulebook.

Myself as a veteran player, I am waiting for the 6th edition 40K starter set to get the mini rulebook. Once one learns the rules, then the mini rulebook becomes a pocket reference for resolving memory disputes.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ost6186369 What two armies are in the 6th edition starter set? The rumor debate is on with Dark Angels and Chaos, or Eldar or Tau instead of Chaos. Myself, I got my hopes on Daemonic Cultists in the starter set for Chaos.

http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... ine-(Mk-II) Here's an invaluable list of GW 40K releases. For a new player, one has to learn about the past releases to get oneself ready for the future releases. Here's the 5th edition codicies from the thread:

November 2011: Necrons (5th edition)
April 2011: Grey Knights (5th edition)
November 2010: Dark Eldar (5th edition)
April 2010: Blood Angels (5th edition)
January 2010: Tyranids (5th edition)
October 2009: Space Wolves (5th edition)
May 2009: Imperial Guard (5th edition)
October 2008: Space Marines (5th edition)
September 2008: Assault on Black Reach
July 2008: Warhammer 40,000 5th Edition

Once the 6th edition starter set is released, there is going to be a glut of models in the market for those models from the 6th edition starter set. For price purposes, one really has to wait and see what models are in the 6th edition starter set. However, one can eliminate the above 5th edition armies from inclusion in the 6th edition starter set. Thus, if one of the above armies is the army that you want to play, then my advice is to go ahead with it.

Doug


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:52 am 
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Its a great start for orks or marines, even if the rules go outdated tomorrow, if you want either army its fine.....

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:48 pm 
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BewareOfTom wrote:
Its a great start for orks or marines, even if the rules go outdated tomorrow, if you want either army its fine.....


I agree

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:23 am 
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Hmm, where was that thread ... oh, here it is ...
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthrea ... -transport

If I remember correctly, then I saw the advance order for these boxed sets on the MWG online store. I'm guessing that they sold out for the MWG online store in the advance order as the boxed sets were a limited run.

Is there an Ork player who has never fielded a Trukk? I don't think so. Thus, if someone was starting Orks, then the boxed set combination of Ork Boyz & Trukk was the deal for them, in my opinion. Of course, timing is crucial.

In over two months with the release of the hardback 6th edition 40K rulebook, the market price for the 5th edition 40K rulebooks will plunge.

In about four months when the release announcement of the 6th edition 40K starter set occurs, independent stores may offer a discount on the 5th edition 40K starter set of AoBR to clear them from their shelves and inventory. (The MWG online store may have it as its daily deal.)

Just to be clear, I used the condition of "at this point in time" to state that it is not worth buying AoBR. At sometime in the near future, one could get a great price for AoBR.

Likewise for timing, if the 6th edition starter set contains the models for two armies, then the new player has to be advised that there is a window of opportunity on the release of the 6th edition starter set. This window of opportunity consists of people buying a 6th edition starter set, and swapping armies, and trading and selling its parts. Once this window of opportunity passes, the ease of such transactions diminishes drastically.

@Faralon: I am curious about your decision. Please tell the world.

Doug


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 9:27 am 
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well thats only some stores that do that, alot of stores (like my FLGS) doesnt put anything on sale, EVER.... (well they have a yearly b-day sale of 10-15% off)

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"(Lebianism) is rather inefficient... there appear to be interface problems"
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Kidnapping? I call it surprise adoption!


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 26, 2012 12:38 am 
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BewareOfTom wrote:
well thats only some stores that do that, alot of stores (like my FLGS) doesnt put anything on sale, EVER.... (well they have a yearly b-day sale of 10-15% off)


The onlytime my FLGS had a sale was when they where quiting.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 8:02 am 
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Now we're getting somewhere...

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@ Darnott - The decision is to go with the AOBR kit, AFTER they release the new starter for 6th unless I can find one for a really good deal before then. I'll be buying some new Citadel paints so that will also buy some time for new "how to" videos so I can zero in on what specific paints I'll need.

The main decision is that after going over the different options, my son and I are interested both in the Orks and Space Marines the most over all the other factions.

I'm wondering if AOBR will be reduced in price earlier than the release of the starter kit, and more so with the release of 6th edition rules...due to the fact that the rule book enclosed with the AOBR kit will be outdated.

Thanks all!


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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 6:34 pm 
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Faralon wrote:
... I'll be buying some new Citadel paints so that will also buy some time for new "how to" videos so I can zero in on what specific paints I'll need.

The main decision is that after going over the different options, my son and I are interested both in the Orks and Space Marines the most over all the other factions.

I'm wondering if AOBR will be reduced in price earlier than the release of the starter kit, and more so with the release of 6th edition rules...due to the fact that the rule book enclosed with the AOBR kit will be outdated.

Thanks all!


My opinion is there probably won't be a price drop. But that's just an opinion.

On subject of new paints, if you or your son don't know how to dry brush or find it a hassle, buy the Necron Compound Dry Brush paint. It has helped me a lot especially with painting Ork weapons.

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PostPosted: Tue May 08, 2012 7:42 am 
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If you want orks/space marines go buy it. Or look on ebay for the specific armies.

Rulebook is only one small part of the package, for the miniatures alone the price is awesome. But you also get the templates, inch rulors (not the best, but if you live in a metric country they're handy. Pluss they make great cat toys!) and a small amount of dice. Trust me, you need dice for warhammer.

And if the loadout on the units aren't the best you can easily mod them. An assault terminator kit comes with 5 terminators but enough equipment for 5 lightning claw terms and 5 hammerdins. So you could easily modify the AoBR terms as assault. Likewise with nobz and powerclaws, boyz into burna boyz (you get lootas and burnas in one pack).


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PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2012 10:36 am 
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Faralon wrote:
my son and I are interested both in the Orks and Space Marines the most over all the other factions

Oh, you have a son. For a father and young son combination as beginners, my suggestion is not to pursue Orks as an army to build just yet. Orks are fun. Orks are cool. But, Orks are demanding. Orks require lots of orks and lots of vehicles. Orks require a better understanding of the game than marines to be played effectively. My suggestion is to concentrate on a marine army for marine-versus-marine games between you and your son. Learning to play 40K is much easier with marine-versus-marine games than marine-versus-ork games. Assembling and painting an army takes a long time. And, it's too easy to get distracted from one army onto another army, and then no army gets completed. Once both of you build a marine army together, and understand the 6th edition rules from your games, then that's a good time to start building a second army.

Looking at my old notes ... GW released AoBR on 6th September 2008. I believe that the price was $75 Cdn on the GW website with the release. (Today it's $118.75 on the GW website.) At the time, I only wanted the mini rulebook as I had plenty of marines and orks. Adding tax to the $75 and using a formula of $35 for the marine part and $35 for the ork part meant that the mini rulebook (and templates and dice) would cost around $15.

Some 40Kers of the Ottawa community got together at Fandom II on the AoBR release day. Some bought more than one AoBR box. Most started swapping the marine and ork parts. Only one guy was selling an extra mini rulebook, and he wanted $25. Way too much. Another guy was looking to buy the ork part, and he was willing to buy the ork part from me for $35 if I bought an AoBR box. After selling the ork part to the second guy for $35, I sold the marine part for $35 to the first guy.

When I got home to do the math, it turns out that I only paid $2.20 plus gas to get the mini rulebook (and templates and dice) after selling the marine and ork parts. The price on the shelf for AoBR at Fandom II was $71 and not $75. I had used my club membership card to get the 10% discount off the shelf price. Oops, $30 for a marine or ork part with my local 40Kers would of been fine with me after the discounts. The price of $35 for each part was in my head, and based on a cost of $75 plus tax because one plan of mine was to find someone selling a mini rulebook at the GW store. And, there are no discounts at GW stores.

Rather than partake of the buying-swapping frenzy on AoBR release day, some 40Kers of the Ottawa community ordered from online discount sellers, and waited the weeks after the AoBR release for AoBR to arrive. One online discount seller that they used was Great Canadian Miniatures, and GCM is still selling AoBR at a discount:
http://gc-minis.com/item669.htm Great Canadian Miniatures has AoBR at 30% off.
http://gc-minis.com/msg2.htm Shipping is "$15.00 plus 3% of the total purchase before taxes and shipping".

Besides having Daily Deals at 35% off, the MiniWarGaming online store has a sale from time to time of some product lines at 25% off, usually including GW products. I have no idea when the next sale is scheduled to occur, perhaps before the release of 6th edition 40K.
http://store.miniwargaming.com/pages.php?pageid=21 Flat Rate Shipping for all of North America has $7.99 for Canada.

Comparing GCM and MWG, GCM has a hefty shipping fee, but the discount seems to be always available. I can see myself seeking out a local group who is doing a big order with GCM of 6th edition starter sets.

Changing from Canada to the US with the GW website, the U.S. price for AoBR is $99.00 (and a Universal Template set is $8.25).

http://www.thewarstore.com/blackreach.html The Warstore has the following U.S. prices for selling AoBR parts, as an example for discussion:
$34.99 Warhammer 40k 5th Edition Small Rulebook Paperback
$27.99 Black Reach Space Marine Terminators Squad
$24.99 Black Reach Space Marine Tactical Squad
$4.99 Black Reach Space Marine Captain
$29.99 Black Reach Space Marine Dreadnought w/ Multi Melta
$12.99 Black Reach Orks Boyz Squad of 10 w/ Big Shoota
$8.99 Black Reach Orks Nobz Squad
$4.99 Black Reach Orks Warboss
$18.99 Black Reach Orks Deffkopta Squad of 3
$1.49 Black Reach Decal Sheet
-------
$170.31 total

Not included in the above list are the Range Rulers, Dice, and Templates (with the Templates having a Warstore market value of $8.25).

It's interesting to compare the price difference between a 10-marine Tactical Squad at $24.99, and a 10-ork Boyz squad at $12.99 from The Warstore. Why such the difference? I'm sure the production cost between the two is almost negligible. Well, in my view, the market sees a Tactical squad in higher demand than a Boyz squad, maybe because most people see the building of an Ork army as a much higher cost than building a marine army so they avoid building an Ork army.

In my view with about two months before the rumored release of the 6th edition 40K hardcover, the true market value of the 5th edition mini rulebook is way below $34.99 US through The Warstore. However, one must be cautious about stating absolutes. No matter how remote, it is entirely possible that GW changes the rules for 40K so much that the majority of the 40K community snubs 6th edition 40K, and prefers to keep playing 5th edition 40K. (Some people are still playing 2nd edition 40K, at least that what some of them state.) With a 6th edition snub, the market value of any 5th edition rulebook could skyrocket. GW's modus operandi is to change 40K only for the purpose of creating product sales. Of course, the new players after the release of 6th edition will buy 6th edition 40K because that's all that is available.

My point here is that the only item in AoBR that suffers from major volatility is the mini rulebook. If one wants AoBR for the miniatures or miniature parts, then one has to dig in the marketplace to find a good price.

For the 6th edition starter set coming this September, some rumors have the starter set containing a marine part of Dark Angels and a Chaos part. The rumors say that the Dark Angels part consists of a Terminator Captain, five Deathwing Terminators, a (10-man?) Tactical Squad, and (3?) Ravenwing Bikes. The Chaos part may contain Cultists according to the rumors, whatever the Cultists are.

If the Cultists are rebellious and militant civilians as miniatures, then I am interested in these miniatures. Minimally, I will buy a 6th edition starter set for the mini rulebook, and to swap my marine part for someone's chaos part, or to sell both miniatures parts. If I felt that I wanted more Cultists miniatures, then I may buy the Chaos part from somebody, or buy a second 6th edition starter set, and do the swap again and sell the second mini rulebook. I will not know what I will do until I see the miniatures for the 6th edition starter set.

Doug


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