Tau Alternate Codex - FIRST EDITION NOW UP!

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GreaterGoodIreland
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Tau Alternate Codex - FIRST EDITION NOW UP!

Postby GreaterGoodIreland » Sun Feb 26, 2012 1:50 pm

Hey there Tau players!

Due to the unforgiving nature of codex creep, and what I see as a serious disconnect between the Tau fluff and the crunch of our codex, I decided a while back to write an Alternate. It's my way of constructively criticising our own codex as well as the general direction that Games Workshop has taken with the material in general. So please, throw your input in where possible!

EDIT: The First full Edition is now up!
http://www.mediafire.com/?31y3e6b31uutrth

I look forward to questions and comments, which are hopefully forthcoming.
Last edited by GreaterGoodIreland on Thu Apr 05, 2012 2:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Tau Alternate Codex, First Edition Released! 04/05/12
http://www.mediafire.com/?31y3e6b31uutrth

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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby TyrantEatos » Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:55 pm

im going to say this now in the nices way I can because no one else said it yet

Stop it
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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby GreaterGoodIreland » Sun Feb 26, 2012 6:16 pm

TyrantEatos wrote:im going to say this now in the nices way I can because no one else said it yet

Stop it

Image

LOL NO
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Tau Alternate Codex, First Edition Released! 04/05/12
http://www.mediafire.com/?31y3e6b31uutrth

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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby Corpsey » Sun Feb 26, 2012 7:23 pm

On the whole I don't like it. Completely unbalanced.
You should step away from the idea of an armory, they are being phased out for a reason (inherent imbalances from design).
What saddens me most is that you didn't give the command and control node an ability.
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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby GreaterGoodIreland » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:24 pm

Corpsey wrote:On the whole I don't like it. Completely unbalanced.
You should step away from the idea of an armory, they are being phased out for a reason (inherent imbalances from design).
What saddens me most is that you didn't give the command and control node an ability.


Care to elaborate?

If you mean unbalanced as in broken/overpowered, that's the starting point I chose to work back from. What would you see removed?

Oops,I forgot the Command and Control node edit, I'll throw it in for the next draft.
"The individual with the primitive flashlight has been sent to re-education."

Tau Alternate Codex, First Edition Released! 04/05/12
http://www.mediafire.com/?31y3e6b31uutrth

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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby potato32 » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:11 pm

2+ save on bsuits... bs4 across the board with the option of having 2 plasma rifles firing on bsuits... pirhana/dfish with 9 str5 ap 5 shots possible at balistic 5? Aoe of death hammerheads with three large blasts...
It feels like someone wishes to be matt ward here.
Seriously, up to 60 plasma shots a turn at bs 4 and up on 2+ armor save jetpack units. SERIOUSLY.

You can't see an issue of balance?

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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby Corpsey » Sun Feb 26, 2012 9:34 pm

You should start from under powered and work towards balance.

The enemy closing rule needs clarification of certain interactions (destroying a transport, etc) and can be abused needlessly hard. Intermix all your units, let enemy assault unit approach, pass ld tests thanks to boosted LD and ridiculously cheap ethereals. 3+ units gun down that assaulty unit, at no penalty to themselves? Everything with this rule deserves a price spike.

Crisis suits of all sorts need a serious cost increase. Free iridium on everything without the d6 movement, on top of boosted BS and leadership? I know the chassis was over priced before, but it's definitely under priced now. I'd say make iridium a support system and give it back its movement reduction, as well as making it an either iridium or retro thrusters deal. Increased weight draws more power in the same way the thrusters would, having both might over load the engines.

I don't understand the nerf to the plasma rifle. I also don't understand why you need the 2 points costs. Just give it one points cost, there is no advantage to letting them be fired as a twinlinked weapon with the BS increase. Cut the second cost and just apply the full initial price again if you want to take the weapon again.

Unless of course you want to integrate the multitracker in a greater capacity to build flexibility. Saying you can't shoot the weapons separately unless you have the tracker, but then the tracker needs a huge increase in points to compensate for the cheapness in twinlinked weapons.

Shield gens are way too cheap. 15 points minimum. Either that or weaken the save to 5+. Points need to scale with commander variants, same for the stim injects.

Stealth teams are much more viable now, especially if you give them plasma.

Too much of an Ld shift between shas'la and shas'ui for firewarriors.

Kroot are over powered. Reduce their initiative back to 3, increase emp cost to 4 and you should be on a better track. Their low cost per model and prowess in melee, coupled with infiltrate/outflank and potential fleet make them far too dangerus early game. They could easily spring up turn 1 and wreck 1 or 2 vehicles with auto hit emp's.

I don't like your rendition of the gue'vesa. For a supposed go-between of kroot and fire warriors, they are flat out worse than kroot at everything, and more expensive than firewarriors when upgraded. Their special infiltrate is also incredibly niche, I just can't think of a reason I would take your gue'vesa except as an even cheaper scoring upgrade to a devilfish.

Gun drone squadron has a lot of room for upgrades and options if you just name them drone squadron. Gun drones by default, but can upgrade to other types of drones. I also don't understand their drone AI. fearless in shooting, but whats this auto-rally thing?

pathfinders could use 2 or 3 more points per model.

Piranha didn't really change. Do you think it's fine like it is?
Vespid are too good now. Return them to original cost and keep the range upgrade, ditch MTC.

Skyray is still useless.

I propose a reclassification of the hammerhead and skyray into a single type, since its the same chassis with the same options and just a different turret. Make that turret an option. Along the same lines, change the devilfish from a troop carrier to an IFV, trading half its transport capacity to take some sort of upgraded weapon. Maybe missile pods or rail rifles?
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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby Wulfrun » Sun Feb 26, 2012 10:52 pm

...or we can wait for a codex...just sayin, they're
Not not fun to play anyway
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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby WolfsSOL » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:34 pm

Wulfrun wrote:...or we can wait for a codex...just sayin, they're
Not not fun to play anyway


Now I may be just a small town country boy but what i think he is trying to say is that the current codex is still fun to use.

Now not being a small country boy I agree, they are fun :D. An update would be nice but lets keep those railguns throwing death and loving it the whole time 8)
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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby potato32 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 12:06 am

Now... lets skip the guy who obviously dislike playing Tau.
The major proposition to upgrade Tau is between letting the points drop or upgrading the amount of shots. Bs4 is just breaking half the power of our markerlights.

More shots per units for the same amount of points. Sure they are Bs3, but they got better weapons. With the psycannon having 2 values 1 heavy and 1 assault, pulse rifles could have the same. Something like heavy2/rapidfire3?
This is an example.
Points decrease would mean a lot of our stuff would go down in price. No matter how you look at it, our bad mele stats and bs3/t3 makes our units look bad for their points and they are. Not by a lot but they are.
Firewarriors at 9 or 8 pts is viable. The dfish could use a lowering of price a little, so does all of our tanks mostly... The pirhana is less subject to this and the skyray needs a total overhaul no matter what.

putting out a random idea.
How about instead of a devilfish, pathfinders can buy a lowered price cost sky ray along with them? Lets also remove the obligatory secondary weapon system off of that version and the heavy support slot is thus freed?

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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby khani » Mon Feb 27, 2012 2:07 am

VERY OP, makes the GK's look,like orks
..... :mrgreen:
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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby michael0112 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 6:59 am

regardless of the made up codex above. GW will make are book a bit cheesy - know that phil kelly is writing it is a small blessing but 2+ saves and bs 4 is not mad.

forget all the fluff crap and think of gameplay style. if we went by the fluff all the time the game will bee boring as the ''space marines'' always seem to win.
fluff has taken over form actual rules and so people should embrace new possibilities of better saves and shooting.

more shots ? - what is wrong with that tau are a shooty army after all they guard and tyranid have weapons that have 20 shots and 7 at strength 5 AP 5 is to much ?

we need to except the obvious that big changes will be made - such as fluff (more)
and 3 shots from a rail gun is not so bad (so long as their is a way to balance it out)

plus as I love the tau , I wish for more shooting & battlesuits , and more kroot.
this person was just making an alternative for fun ! - no need to jump down his throat and call his rules crap.

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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby Wulfrun » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:19 am

michael0112 wrote: I wish for more shooting & battlesuits , and more kroot.
this person was just making an alternative for fun ! - no need to jump down his throat and call his rules crap.


There's fun and then there's making us OP and
Not fun, just like those damn dirty space mehreenz.
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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby michael0112 » Mon Feb 27, 2012 7:57 am

well obviously the person who wrote these rules did it out of fun and was not trying to make it op. but I get what your saying.

if you think this was cheesy then their is one fake codex leak that would have you tearing your hair out - coz that is crap

and this is it

http://www.scribd.com/doc/74662435/Tau- ... no-Markups

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Re: My Tau Alternate Codex Project

Postby GreaterGoodIreland » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:40 am

@Everyone: Read my original post, I said very clearly that I made this as cheesemongering as possible as a starting point. The whole point is to provoke debate, so do not spare my feelings.

They're only rules for a game, for FSM's sake.

Corpsey wrote:You should start from under powered and work towards balance.

The enemy closing rule needs clarification of certain interactions (destroying a transport, etc) and can be abused needlessly hard. Intermix all your units, let enemy assault unit approach, pass ld tests thanks to boosted LD and ridiculously cheap ethereals. 3+ units gun down that assaulty unit, at no penalty to themselves? Everything with this rule deserves a price spike.

Crisis suits of all sorts need a serious cost increase. Free iridium on everything without the d6 movement, on top of boosted BS and leadership? I know the chassis was over priced before, but it's definitely under priced now. I'd say make iridium a support system and give it back its movement reduction, as well as making it an either iridium or retro thrusters deal. Increased weight draws more power in the same way the thrusters would, having both might over load the engines.

I don't understand the nerf to the plasma rifle. I also don't understand why you need the 2 points costs. Just give it one points cost, there is no advantage to letting them be fired as a twinlinked weapon with the BS increase. Cut the second cost and just apply the full initial price again if you want to take the weapon again.

Unless of course you want to integrate the multitracker in a greater capacity to build flexibility. Saying you can't shoot the weapons separately unless you have the tracker, but then the tracker needs a huge increase in points to compensate for the cheapness in twinlinked weapons.

Shield gens are way too cheap. 15 points minimum. Either that or weaken the save to 5+. Points need to scale with commander variants, same for the stim injects.

Stealth teams are much more viable now, especially if you give them plasma.

Too much of an Ld shift between shas'la and shas'ui for firewarriors.

Kroot are over powered. Reduce their initiative back to 3, increase emp cost to 4 and you should be on a better track. Their low cost per model and prowess in melee, coupled with infiltrate/outflank and potential fleet make them far too dangerus early game. They could easily spring up turn 1 and wreck 1 or 2 vehicles with auto hit emp's.

I don't like your rendition of the gue'vesa. For a supposed go-between of kroot and fire warriors, they are flat out worse than kroot at everything, and more expensive than firewarriors when upgraded. Their special infiltrate is also incredibly niche, I just can't think of a reason I would take your gue'vesa except as an even cheaper scoring upgrade to a devilfish.

Gun drone squadron has a lot of room for upgrades and options if you just name them drone squadron. Gun drones by default, but can upgrade to other types of drones. I also don't understand their drone AI. fearless in shooting, but whats this auto-rally thing?

pathfinders could use 2 or 3 more points per model.

Piranha didn't really change. Do you think it's fine like it is?
Vespid are too good now. Return them to original cost and keep the range upgrade, ditch MTC.

Skyray is still useless.

I propose a reclassification of the hammerhead and skyray into a single type, since its the same chassis with the same options and just a different turret. Make that turret an option. Along the same lines, change the devilfish from a troop carrier to an IFV, trading half its transport capacity to take some sort of upgraded weapon. Maybe missile pods or rail rifles?


THIS is the sort of thing I want to hear, thank you Corpsey.

Code: Select all

- I'll further clarify the Enemy Closing rule.
- Ethereal cost will be increased
- Crisis suits should be what they are in the fluff: The elite of the elite of the Fire Caste. They'll need to keep their new capabilities, so I'll check out a points increase.
- The 2+ save is mainly a reaction to two things: The size of the models themselves, both in terms of their base and the model, and their role in terms of fluff. Perhaps it should be an upgrade, but I maintain it should be without the d6 movement. The Tau are a highly technological race that has anti-grav technology, the concept that the suit's weight should strain the engines is somewhat farcical in my opinion. I can see how having both retros and iridium armour might cause problems though.
- Weapons costs idea will be implemented (I just liked the idea of twin-linking as a "cannot miss" type shot, but not that much)
- Shield gens compete for a slot with multi-trackers, which was why I thought it was ok to reduce their price.
- Stealth teams without other battlesuit weapons never made any sense to me, at least excluding the missile pods as the Stealth suits aren't exactly made for longer-ranged engagements (at least in the fluff). It would also be severely broken even by the standards of this cheese-chunk to let them bounce in and out of nightfighting view with a two shot weapon that can seriously hurt light vehicles, heavy infantry and monstrous creatures.
- Leadership difference between Shas'la and Shas'ui is deliberate, to simulate the nature of the Tau military's hierarchial structure from its very roots. Shas'la rely on their Shas'ui to lead them effectively, and a Shas'ui has much greater information and intelligence available to them due to Tau uplink technology. Commands from the top can be relayed much more effectively than in the Imperial Guard.
- Gue'vesa will be tweaked.
- Gun drone upgrades will be added
- The "Drone Intelligence" special rule means that drones are Fearless for all purposes except in close combat: i.e. Pinning Tests, taking casualties from shooting attacks etc. If they escape the losing side of an assault turn, they rally automatically after their retreat provided there isn't an enemy close to them in accordance with the usual rules on that. I'll clarify it.
- Pathfinders will have to be finetuned in cost, their role is now even more important than before because of the BS increase (contrary to some of the statements here). Reducing coversaves and leadership values is what their fluff role is. I doubt I'll be decreasing their cost, put it that way.
- I had an idea that the Skyray might be good as a Tau Razorback, but I wanted to add that in a later draft. Love the Devilfish idea.
"The individual with the primitive flashlight has been sent to re-education."

Tau Alternate Codex, First Edition Released! 04/05/12
http://www.mediafire.com/?31y3e6b31uutrth


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