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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:41 am 
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http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/po ... ge#3910423

I got tired of updating both posts every time I made a change. I'm actually gonna get a couple battle reports on my channel using him so look forward to that soon.

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Last edited by LordHamshire on Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:49 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:41 am 
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A Kroxigor Assassin. Well it's a very different idea for a Special Character.

Some thoughts though.

I think 7 attacks is far to high. I think 5 is ample.

I would drop the Wizard part as well. That really is going OTT with him

In the Special Rules for him I would add one that stops him joining units fits in with the first few lines of his fluff.

I would change Soteks Target to
Randomly select one Random Character. When in combat with the target Necalli must issue a challenge which can't be refused. Necalli can re-roll misses in combat with the target. Means his target can't hid but it also forces you to fight the target even if it is something you don't want to fight.

I would also add to the rule as well. If Necalli target dies during the game (fled off the board doesn't count) and is not killed by Necalli the Lizardmen only get half Victory Points for that Character.

I would change Decapitator of Sotek to
Halberd. +1 Strength. In challenges grants Heroic Killing Blow.
I think a weapon with Killing Blow and Poisoned Attacks as standard is rather hard.

Just my thoughts

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 9:08 am 
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LordHamshire wrote:
Alright, I'm still working on him. But here is what I got so far...

NECALLI, SOTEK'S FANGS, KROXIGOR OF THE THIRD SPAWNING, EXECUTIONER FOR THE SERPENT GOD

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Fluff
Necalli was spawned with dark red skin and green scales. The skink priests decided that this was no meer deformity, this Kroxigor had with the mark of Sotek. Necalli was spawned with the Skinks as any Kroxigor, but Necalli never grew to like the Skinks nor his Kroxigor kin. At first the Skink priests looked to Necalli to be a great builder sent by Sotek himself to help them make there city great, but Necalli often disobeyed the instructions from his smaller kin and a dispute with a high Skink official ended up violent as Necalli grabbed a large tool and decapitated the official. The cities Skink priests ordered his execution, and he fled. He fled into the deepest Jungles of Lustria where he found Tehenhauin. Tehenhauin knew what Necalli had done, yet also knew that Sotek had designated this one for something greater and so he showed him mercy and gave him food and shelter. Though Tehenhauin was a small kin, Necalli saw him as a prophet and a mentor as Tehenhauin taught him great things of the serpent god Sotek. After a few months of Tehenhauin's "lessons" which often evolved the slaughter of Skaven scouting parties, and encampments, Tehenhuin declared him an official prophet of Sotek. Later that night Sotek directly spoke to Necalli in a dream and told him to sweep the world of the heretics and disbelievers, and when Necalli asked where he would find such Sotek responded to him with a bellowing hiss "They are everywhere my child." When Necalli awoke he found a giant blade attached to a snake-like shaft, and inscribed onto the shaft were the words "Those who stand in the path of Sotek shall taste the venom sting of his fangs."In the morning Necalli departed from Tehenhauin and begun on his quest. Necalli spent many weeks surviving in the jungle (which in Lustria is no easy feat.) There was a moment during his time in the jungle where Necalli was severely wounded after barely surviving an encounter with a fearsome Carnosaur. Necalli lay half-dead, starving, lying against a tree with one hand on his weapon, and the other over his wounds. He thought that he would perish so he grabbed his weapon, dipped it into his own blood, and carved Sotek symbols onto to the nearby stone. With sights of chipped stone and his own dripping cold blood he fell unconscious. Necalli awoke, and in front of him a snake waited with a large verminous creature in it's mouth. The snake laid the rodent at Necalli's feet and slithered away. Necalli quickly ate the catch and felt that he had enough strength to continue his journey. Later on, Necalli encountered a traveling war party of Saurus Warriors that were now resting in an encampment. The stench was intense as a pile filled with the dead bodies of slain foe was being burned, but after the time spent in the jungle he had endured worse. An Oldblood among them stepped out of a tent and slowly approached Necalli until he stood but feet from the Kroxigor that stood towering over him. He looked up toward him, and yet still managed to keep an air of command. The encampment feel silent. "You are far from the Temple Cities builder... " the Oldblood grunted. Necalli proceeded to tell the Oldblood about his story and even mentioned the crimes he had comminited. The Oldblood laughed and said "Any one who can battle with a Carnosaur and survive is welcome in my party!" The Oldblood later taught the Necalli how to use a weapon and use it well. Necalli even joined them in battle on numerous occasions. And before leaving to continue his mission the Oldblood sent a message to all Lustria that all crimes Necalli committed shall here forth be forgotten. Necalli at one point returned to the his home Temple City, expecting to find angry skink officials and priests, but when he arrived the residents said they were all found dead, it had seemed that they were killed one by one by snakes as they slept. Now Necalli travels all over and assassinates targets that appear in his dreams, often breaking into towns and fortresses, smashing through gates, and tearing through soldiers and guards to reach his targets. When the defenses are too heavy Necalli, in spite of his size, is actually known to sneak through pipelines, sewage, or over walls hidden in the dark of night.


In Game
The rules for Necalli are obviously not 'official' so you must get permission with your opponent before using, but if you do decide to include him for some sort of special mission, have fun. :)

Necalli is a special character. He counts as a hero choice. For Necalli you may simply use a normal Kroxigor model.

Necalli
M 6
WS 5
BS 0
S 5
T 5
W 4
I 3
A 7
Ld 8

Points: N/A yet.

Unit Type: Monsterous Infantry

Weapons and Armour: Decapitator of Sotek.

MAGIC
Nacalli is a Level 1 Wizard, who uses the Lore of Beasts.

SPECIAL RULES
Cold Blooded; 3+ Scaly Skin; Fear; Immune to Poison; Unbreakable; Forest Strider.

Sotek's Target
Necalli finds who Sotek wishes for him to kill in dreams. The serpent god states the judgement and will assist his executioner on doing what must be done. Randomly select one enemy character before deployment. All unsaved wounds caused by Necalli on the target are doubled. In addition Necalli causes Terror to the target or any unit the target's joined.

Sotek's Blessing
Necalli is watched over by Sotek himself, granting him a 5+ ward save.

Aquatic
Necalli has the Marsh Strider, River Strider, and Lake Strider special rules.

Kroxigor Assassin
Despite his size Necalli is actually known to sneak through pipelines, sewage, forests, or over walls hidden in the dark of night waiting for the precise time to strike. Roll a D6 before deployment; on a 6 Necalli gains the Scout special rule, on a 4, or a 5 Necalli gains the Vanguard special rule.

MAGIC ITEMS
Decapitator of Sotek
Halberd. Blessed by Sotek to have a potent poison and incredible strength even a slight cut from the blade can kill its targets in seconds. This weapon grants Necalli +2 Strength instead of the normal +1 given by Halberds. In addition the Decapitator of Sotek grants Necalli Killing Blow and Poisoned Attacks.

So yeah, I would love any input or suggestions you got.


Over powered. WAAAAAY over powered. 7 attacks at S7...with multiple wounds (2) AND killing blow AND poison...AND lore of beasts? Dude, this guy is way OP to be a hero.

Cut his attacks, remove multiple wounds, remove poison, remove his wizard level, make it killing blow 6+, in a challenge killing blow 5+. And just give him a great weapon as opposed to a +2 strength halberd.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:34 am 
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I agree. As listed he should be something like 800 points. Ditch the Magic level, trim about 1-2 attacks, and change Unbreakable to Stubborn. Personally I would give him Terror, get rid of the special deployment junk and drop either the poisoned attacks or Killing Blow.

Other than that... I hate house rules, so unless you are doing this for fun or for a special scenario, I would give it up. House rules just suck. They ruin clubs over time.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:38 pm 
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Insolent fools! You slaves of passion! Basking in his glory!

Lol, no I'm just joking. But here guys lend me your ears. But how can you say he is overpowered without knowing the price?

As listed.... he is not worth 800 points. Maybe GW would price him at 800... but they overprice all there special characters.

I need him to be magic, (The worshipers of Sotek are wizards in Lore of Beasts.)

I don't understand todda too much...

Azeebo... he only has multiple wounds (2) against one random character.

He needs to be a hero, because I wan't you able to field him with Tehenhauin. And it doesn't make much sense for him to be a "Lord" in the first place.

I kinda like the idea of him being faster than some...

7 Attacks is too high for what? FOR WHAT! I don't understand you people, lol? I HAVEN'T EVEN PUT A PRICE ON EM YET!

I want him to be able to join units cause he did it so many times in his past.

I don't really like the idea of gobbo's target.

But all of you gave input which was helpful, so thanks.


I think I should show you guys Warsphinx...
8 Attacks (four str 4 killing blow, four poisoned strength 5)
8 Toughness
Terror
5+ Armour Save
Thunderstops
Str 4 Breath Attack

230 pts...

And thats not overpowered!

You guys have all been brainwashed by GW Special Characters. WAKE UP SHEEPLE! WAKE UP SHEEEPLE!

GW made a fake little Kroxigor special character a while back. Nakai the Wanderer, remember em'

HE HAD 6 ATTACKS! 7 IS ONE MORE! WAKE UP SHEEPLE! WAKE UP SHEEPLE!

Lol, anyway. They all liked him on DakkaDakka... lol

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:57 pm 
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You missing the point. The sphinx is NOT over priced or overpowered because it is one model. A character can be in a unit, a sphinx can not. A krox cannot be sniped out of a unit by a cannon ball, a sphinx can be 1 shotted by a cannon ball.

Monsters are very cheap...sort of, for a single model that relies on its stats to live, not the unit it has joined. Your characters stats rarely, if ever, surpass a monsters but are more expensive because they are much easier to hide, and they tend to have magic items and special rules, which monsters do not have. ALso, a sphix has a 5+ armour save...sort of balances out the whole T8...

The closes thing you have to your character in the hero section is Konrad Von Carstein who has 6 attacks at S5 multiple wounds (2). At max, he can wrack up around about 18 attacks if you roll perfectly. He is less than 170 points, but his weakness? He is random. Sometimes, he may never see combat because he can be stupid. Being low leadership could lead him to charge a unit by himself since he can also be frenzied, he also has no armour of value and has a pitiful toughness. He is immensly powerful, but his weaknesses make up for it. Your krox is 1) immune to killing blow 2) has killing blow 3) could be multi wounding 4) has 7 attacks at an insane strength 5) has a stupid number of wounds and a high toughness 6) His unit will NEVER break 7) Poison attacks at S7 are insane 8) He has an insane armour save 9) he has a freakin ward save to boot

Your character, despite his potential cost, has NO weaknesses. The bane of nearly all characters is usually killing blow, or a lack of real protection. Your krox is boarderline indestructible unless he goes up against powerful lords such as a vampire lord, tomb king, chaos lord etc.

Home made characters dont work, because most people dont understand how to balance them and make arguemnts like: "The sphinx has this, and only costs this so my character has this and is not broken. " Game doesnt work like that.

I could go on...but im going to stop here. Say what you will about GW special characters being overcosted...they ALL have some weakness to combat their strengths. Teclis, terrible statline, insane magical power, Kairos Fateweaver, insane magical power, very squishy, Manfred, powerful magic user and combat lord, very lightly armoured, pricey etc.

The list is endless...

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:00 pm 
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LordHamshire wrote:
Lol, anyway. They all liked him on DakkaDakka... lol


The problem with that line there is, DakkaDakka.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Azeebo... we're not so different you and I. I know that is why special characters don't work... but I see than you know. I know this game... lol. I will price him right... don't you worry.

And The Slann has no weakness, lol. The Slann Mage-Priest... should cost 700 points. I WOULD PROBABLY STILL GET HIM!

Also your "weakness" idea just doesn't really hold water man. Sure a Warsphinx can be taken down by a cannon, but not every team has a cannon! Lizardmen have to take Warsphinxs head on in combat. The weakness of this guy is combat! A warsphinx on average would beat him!

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Last edited by LordHamshire on Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Unless he is escorted by 30-40 temple guard he is useless. So, if you look at it that way, he does cost over 700 points.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Opps, (see edit I made to post above)

And its not like his Temple Guard only act as his protection. You can abuse the Lore of Life Regeneration save and etc. and they become killing machines! They are almost worth 16 pts a model in the first place!

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 3:27 pm 
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But, see, the unit was made like that to work with other weakness/advantages of the lizardman book. Your unit breaks out of thel izardman book and is not balanced alongside it.

Also, the arguement "Not all armies have X" is an absolutely terrible arguement, because that means either A: you're tailoring you're list (bad) or B: you're going to get rocked when you go up against a list with the item in question in it.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:25 pm 
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I question most of your sanity, but I added a price. 200 points. I talked to a lot of Warhammer people and they all said that. They mentioned him being a glass cannon. The one wizard level barely doing anything. David (The All Knowing Warhammer God) said you probably wouldn't even want to put him into a unit. Lol, I'm not trying to be mean. don't take this offensively. It's not like you are going to have to use him or go against him.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Whatever dude.

And by the way, the only all knowing warhammer deity around here is me... :P

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:03 pm 
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200pts!!! LordHamshire I think you are delusional.

Here is a comparison.

Bragg the Gutsman is an Ogre Special Character. Only difference is he has higher BS than you and a couple less attacks.

Apart from the standard Ogre Charge and Fear rules, he has a Magic Item which only gets its real bonuses when he is in a challenge.

Guess what? Bragg is slightly more expensive than your character!

If you are going to create a special character then fine. But to post it for comment and then dismiss everyone who has commented on it defeats the object of the post.

Simple fact of the matter it's a completely broken character who would have fitted in nicely in the 4th and 5th Ed of Warhammer, but in 8th he has no place. If your gaming group is a happy for you to field him for 200pts, well good for you.

I think most people would tell you to do one, after they have picked themselves off the floor once their fit of hysterics has passed after being asked can I field this guy.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:18 pm 
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gobbo7603 wrote:
200pts!!! LordHamshire I think you are delusional.

Here is a comparison.

Bragg the Gutsman is an Ogre Special Character. Only difference is he has higher BS than you and a couple less attacks.

Apart from the standard Ogre Charge and Fear rules, he has a Magic Item which only gets its real bonuses when he is in a challenge.

Guess what? Bragg is slightly more expensive than your character!

If you are going to create a special character then fine. But to post it for comment and then dismiss everyone who has commented on it defeats the object of the post.

Simple fact of the matter it's a completely broken character who would have fitted in nicely in the 4th and 5th Ed of Warhammer, but in 8th he has no place. If your gaming group is a happy for you to field him for 200pts, well good for you.

I think most people would tell you to do one, after they have picked themselves off the floor once their fit of hysterics has passed after being asked can I field this guy.


Dont worry gobbo...he asked DakkaDakka...they know everything... :roll:

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