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 Post subject: Wych question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 9:09 pm 
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So I've got a very basic army set up. (in other words, little over the minimum, which I by no means intend to play until a fuller army is ready) I plan having one strong ground squad of warriors, and a couple Raider squads for drive by attacks. I have Hellions, as when I test played them and borrowed from others they've done me well.

Now, my question is; How well have Wyches worked for you as Elites in a Kabal Army? I hear disdain about them, but from what I've seen, they can be pretty effective still. For instance, a friend who works at my local GW plays D.E. and uses a Wych squad of 10 in a raider to great effect. (I plan on using the same set up. Wyches of 10 in a raider). I imagine they'd be great for quick charge into assault, and for running to a position to hold for objective games, while Warriors deal with the enemy.

What do we all think about this?

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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 12, 2009 11:29 pm 
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The only disdain for wyches come from those who have to go up against them. Wyches are one of the best units in the book and I've had nothing but success with them.


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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:02 am 
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Wyches can hold their own against virtually any other unit in CC (steer clear of anything with a warscythe, or Assassin with the C'tan sword) they are easily one of the most straight forward and powerful units in the codex.

General disdain will come from two places, as Ramiel said, anyone who has gotten their best assault unit schooled by them, and anyone who plays them and hasn't learned how to keep them in assault. By that I mean charging a as big a squad as you can into a 5 or 10 man squad and dealing a whole bunch of wounds up front and then sweeping them dead. Sure it's great you killed the unit, but in the following turn, you get shot and fall back on the all powerful 6+ armour save. It's part of the tactics of using wyches, slightly smaller units, learning and using multiple assaults, how to keep parts of the unit out of assault.

Don't give up on them quickly, and expect them to kill something one turn and die to shooting every now and again, it's going to happen.

As far as the rest of your army, keep in mind Raiders can only 'drive by' and have the squad shoot if they move 6" or less.

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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:05 am 
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Raiders are fast so it's 12"

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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:21 am 
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But the models inside can still only fire if it moved 6" or less.


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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:20 am 
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Brilliant. I had a gut feeling they were good. Also, do we use Wyches in Raiders or on foot for more bodies? (I'm trying to ask as much as possible here to get a good overview of what other people prefer, as I only know of two D.E. players in person, and while the one GW employee has been helpful, the other guy I don't know personally.)

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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 1:24 am 
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Always in the Raiders. As xzandrate said you don't want big squads.


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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 9:10 am 
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I've won tournaments with nothing but Wych squads. So the effectiveness of Wyches vs any unit or Vehicle is evident. However as everyone has stated the size of the squad and Tactical disection of your opponent is most important.
I have a theory that Warhammer lends it self to C.C. and so I play with that in mind. I always try to eliminate the shooting of my opponents which is the weekness of the Wyches. Wyches need to be in assault always (hence the 4+ inv. save and thier special rules) and you have to get them there quickly ( use raiders and keep in mind cover saves) and keep them there.


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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 12:19 pm 
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I have to agree with you Kreig, I don't know about previous editions, but I definitely feel that 5th edition leans heavily towards the Assault Phase. Between free cover saves, how rarely you need a 5+ to hit in CC, sweeping advances and the ratio of good combat units to good shooting units in the game, Warhammer 40k is definitely pro melee. Coming into the game, I figured "hey, its 40,000 years into the future, who is going to use a sword when you have guns that shoot missiles that shoot more guns that shoot missiles"

But clearly, that isn't the case, in 40k assault units have a distinct advantage. And Wyches have a distinct advantage over assault units, pimp rules and Eldar tricks.

1) Negating bonus attacks from extra close combat weapons.
2) Halving the WS of enemies when they attack.
3) An Invulnerable save in combat thus negating Power weapons.
4) Drugs that give a variable bonus like higher Strength and WS, extra attacks, etc.
5) High Initiative score with a chance of always attacking first thanks to drugs.

I would put Wyches up against any unit in the game. The only Troops that I believe can stand up to them are Plague Marines and Khorne Berzerkers. The only Elites I would worry about are Lightning Claw Assault Terminators and they for the same reason as Berzerkers, sheer number of attacks.

Genestealers? Fold them like an old wallet.
Harlequins? Stuff the clowns in a VW Bug.
Terminators? You have to roll 1s sometime.
Space Marine Veterans? You're kidding right?
Carnifex? Agoniser.
C'tan? Well, they just aren't fair anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Sun Dec 13, 2009 2:01 pm 
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Well said TheSinisterUrge
I once faught the C-Tan with Lelith and Wych squad and stayed in combat for 3-4 turns ( till the end of the game). Remember the C-Tan only pushes str-3 models away in it's assault turn not ours. The agoniser was great and I had the Goblet of Spite to help with hits.
Another aside is that the C-Tan is not immune to instant death (kind of cool if you are able to pack a Force weapon).


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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Also, quick question. Are the wyches pewter or plastic, and do they come with extra bits like arms/weapons etc...?

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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 2:53 pm 
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Their metal

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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Fri Dec 25, 2009 3:55 pm 
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Alright, that's what I figured. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Sat Dec 26, 2009 8:44 am 
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KreigKhan wrote:
Well said TheSinisterUrge
I once faught the C-Tan with Lelith and Wych squad and stayed in combat for 3-4 turns ( till the end of the game). Remember the C-Tan only pushes str-3 models away in it's assault turn not ours. The agoniser was great and I had the Goblet of Spite to help with hits.
Another aside is that the C-Tan is not immune to instant death (kind of cool if you are able to pack a Force weapon).


C'tan also ignore Invulnerable saves, ignore Wych weapons and cause Instant Death. Not even Lelith can stand up to a C'tan without poor rolls for the Necron player.

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 Post subject: Re: Wych question
PostPosted: Mon Jan 04, 2010 10:17 am 
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Correct the Nightbringer player did roll poorly. I also remember him using the Gaze of Death which I was able to save against. I also remember being pushed away on my assault however when he assaulted me I was able to hit him ( Lelith's and Succubus's agonisers and Goblet of spite). Both my opponent and I will remember that one for a long time.


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