Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

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LarztheRed
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Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by LarztheRed » Mon May 15, 2017 12:50 pm

Hi there!

I am more of a painter and less of a player but I do take what I do seriously. I'm looked my to build a 30k army and paint it up. I would like to use characters like Magnus when he is fully available and Arhiman. I'm looking for 2000- 2500 pts ideally.

If there is anyone that could breakdown the squads and point values and what I would need to purchase from either GW or Forgeworld that would be greatly appreciated!

Regards,
Larz

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Koonitz
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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by Koonitz » Mon May 15, 2017 2:00 pm

That's difficult to say because, even though the Thousand Sons were always the smallest legion, they were still 50-80,000 strong at their peak prior to the Burning of Prospero. This gives you great leeway to field largely what you prefer.

If you read the Horus Heresy Inferno book, they do take the lives of their soldiers seriously, as they are very picky, and very slow, to recruit. While the reasons for this are never truly explained, it is likely due to seeking out those strong in psychic potential, and likely through the guidance of the Corvidae to avoid recruiting... bad apples.

With this in mind, I wouldn't recommend building an army around a meat-grinder/attrition style of warfare. Though they are capable of doing so, it is certainly not their style.

At 2,000-2,500 points, you'll never be able to field an army capable of focusing on every aspect of the Thousand Sons styles of warfare. As the whole legion centers around the 5 psychic cults (Corvidae, Raptora, Pyrae, Athenaean, and Pavoni), each of which will have a dramatically different method of warfare, I'd simply try to find something that interests you and build your army up around that.

At that point scale, super-heavies are largely out of the question, considering the limitations of Horus Heresy battles (Lords of War can be no more than 25% of your total points, so you're limited to a maximum 625 point LoW at 2,500 points). As such, you may wish to leave them out of the equation for the time being.

You may wish to consider Rites of War, which will dramatically change how you build your army. Rules for how to use Rites of War are in the red book, and the Thousand Sons have two, in addition to the ones available to all legions:

1) The first, the Alembic of Dissolution, is likely to be largely unpopular, as it requires that ALL troops units are built to their maximum size. Which means your two core troops choices must be 20-man strong, each, and any further troops units must also be max size. This is a very harsh restriction. The benefits are okay, but difficult to take advantage of.

2) The second, The Guard of the Crimson King, is likely to be a very popular pick among Thousand Sons players looking to bring a Rite of War. You are required to bring Magnus, Ahriman or a Praetor upgraded to psychic mastery level 3. In addition, your two mandatory troops requirements must be Scarab Occult Terminators, and they become optional troops units as well. The benefits really show off the psychic mastery of the Thousand Sons and are much more flashy and easy to manipulate than the previous Rite of War. Though there are some faults that can make this unattractive to some who wish to try to min/max their Thousand Sons units within the core rules of the Thousand Sons.

Note that Rites of War are not required, and you can bring a standard list.

If you are looking for specific wargear options, that can vary, and depends on the units you may want (ie: I'm not going to give you a break down of good wargear options for every single unit available to a Legion Astartes army).

However, the Tactical Squad is pretty ubiquitous and due to the prevalence of Mk III/IV armour thanks to the two box sets from GW, you'll likely want to start there, regardless which Rite of War (if any) you end up using. So I'll give you this one. Tac squads have no weapon options across the squad. They all get bolters and bolt pistols. You can optionally either replace the bolter with a chain sword/combat blade, or add said weapon while keeping the bolter. It is very common for people to add the weapon, as Tac squads often get dug into close combat against their brothers. As well, sergeants have the option to upgrade to artificer armour. This gives them the option to tank wounds that would otherwise evaporate a squad of power armoured marines (AP3 is quite common in a game where you ALWAYS fight against Marines). As well, when stuck in combat, challenges are common, and they'll almost always be against other 2+ save models, so most sergeants favour an AP2 melee weapon, whether a power fist or a power axe or another option. Meltabombs are also not a bad choice, whether on the squad as a whole, or just on the sergeant.

Legion Vexillas are pretty much mandatory. Both 'cause they look cool and, if you're a Loyalist Marine in 40k, you'll find yourself struggling to adapt to having Marines without ATSKNF. Having a reroll to morale is valuable.
Last edited by Koonitz on Mon May 15, 2017 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

LarztheRed
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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by LarztheRed » Mon May 15, 2017 2:07 pm

This does not have to be competitive in any way. This is simply a big painting project that can be played hopefully. If it runs over 2500 to say 3000 I'd be fine with that. I just don't have the slightest clue of what I need to buy, and then build up.

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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by Koonitz » Mon May 15, 2017 2:26 pm

LarztheRed wrote:This does not have to be competitive in any way. This is simply a big painting project that can be played hopefully. If it runs over 2500 to say 3000 I'd be fine with that. I just don't have the slightest clue of what I need to buy, and then build up.
Okay. I'd start by figuring out if you want to use it with any Rite of War, or without. As I said before, it's not required, but can help make a flavourful army that fits your desired play style.

Assuming you don't, then I'd absolutely start with either a Betrayal at Calth (BaC) or Burning of Prospero (BoP) box set (or both). Even if you ignore the boardgame that comes with it, you still get 30 Tactical Marines from either box (Mk IV in BaC, Mk III in BoP).

BaC also includes 5 Cataphractii Terminators (a bit heavier and slower than traditional) and a basic Contemptor Dreadnought. (edit: And a generic Chaplain and Praetor model. Every model in this box can be used by any Legion without needing work)

BoP includes 5 Tartaros Terminators (lighter, faster) some Sisters of Silence and Adeptus Custodes. It also includes Ahriman and a Space Wolf character. It also includes some transfers for Thousand Sons, though I recommend getting the Forge World transfer sheet to expand your army. The drawback to this box is that you generally can't use the Sisters of Silence, Adeptus Custodes or Space Wolf character, so there will be some 'excess' compared to BaC.

There's absolutely nothing better for starting a Horus Heresy army. If you get the BaC box, with Mk IV marines, Forge World also offers an upgrade kit with variant torsos, shoulder pads and heads that are really wonderfully thematic. If you choose a Rite of War, you may end up choosing one that requires zero Tac Marines, so this may end up not being the most optimal choice. Though for a modeling or thematic choice, having a couple squads of Tac Marines to add to your display case will likely bring the army together, visually.

Beyond that, to expand, I'd recommend at least a couple of Rhinos and a Land Raider or two. If you wish to stay thematic, you'll want to pick up Forge World's Damocles Rhino, or the Mk IIb Land Raider, which were the common variants of the time. To save money, you may wish to just buy the standard Games Workshop Rhino or Land Raider model. It's unlikely anyone would truly complain in a game.

Additional models/units, which will largely be Forge World purchases, will vary depending on your own flavour. Though the Thousand Sons specific variant models should be high on your radar.

- Sehkmet Cabal (Scarab Occult) Terminators.
- Khenetai Occult Blade Cabal.
- Osiron Pattern Contemptor Dreadnought (Psychic Dread).

Beyond that, a third party company, Kromlech, produces some thematic Egyptian-styled power weapons that can add some extra flavour to your models. I have found the following three kits to fit right in with Thousand Sons, and I have all three.

- Khopesh Vibro Swords.
- Stygian Two-handed Weapons.
- Technomancer Staves. These lean a little bit more towards Necrons than Thousand Sons, but as both have a little ancient Egypt in them, it's not far off, and could easily be described as an ancient relic of unknown providence (read: Necron) that was found by your Thousand Sons character.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

LarztheRed
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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by LarztheRed » Mon May 15, 2017 2:39 pm

Thank you! I was thinking of picking up the burning of Prospero box set. A rite of war would be great. I'm more or less looking for a list of what to purchase so that I can paint it up. Something fluffy and definitely the board will be set on Prospero. This is more of a display in mind that "could be played".

LarztheRed
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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by LarztheRed » Mon May 15, 2017 2:49 pm

Day I purchased Burning of Prospero, and then some head/shoulder pad upgrades- and 2 sets of cabal terminators, what else would be nice to add?

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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by Koonitz » Mon May 15, 2017 2:53 pm

I'd absolutely recommend getting the Horus Heresy Book 7: Inferno and the Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List books as they are required to field the Thousand Sons army. You can get them both in this bundle, or Forge World offers them separately. Yes, they're expensive, yes they're worth every single penny.

I also forgot the Castellax-Achaea battle automata, which are so very, very amazingly cool models, with some interesting (if techno-heretical) history.

I'd honestly recommend sticking with what you have and getting the two books I mention here. The models you have will give you more than enough to work on while you read through the books to figure out what would be nice to add.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

LarztheRed
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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by LarztheRed » Mon May 15, 2017 3:49 pm

Corvidae and Pavoni are the cults that I lean towards fluff wise if that helps

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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by Kovlovsky » Mon May 15, 2017 3:55 pm

Koonitz wrote:That's difficult to say because, even though the Thousand Sons were always the smallest legion, they were still 50-80,000 strong at their peak prior to the Burning of Prospero. This gives you great leeway to field largely what you prefer.
Are you sure they were that numerous? I'm pretty sure I remember that in A Thousand Sons, they say at some point that before the Burning of prospero, they are about 10 000 and that after it, there are only slightly under 1000 survivors when they get to the Planet of Sorcerers. They always say that it's the smallest legion, even less numerous than the Salamanders. Has it been retconned in the new FW book Horus Heresy: Inferno?

Otherwise, if you want to play a fluffly TS army, I would suggest to not mechanise yourself too much. The legion was largely foot slogging and didn't have a lot of mechanised support. They seem to not having cared much about them. In A Thousand Sons, they are accompagned by a few Land Raiders when dealing with a psychic anomaly at some point. So, I would keep away from Super Heavy tanks and other armored support. On Prospero, at some point, the Magister Templi of the Pyrae takes control of a disabled Reaver Titant that was held as a statue to beat back the SW, but it was a one time event and it costs him dearly.
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40k : 3945 points of Thousand Sons
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LarztheRed
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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by LarztheRed » Mon May 15, 2017 4:02 pm

I'm looking to build something for armies on parade with a Prospero based theme if that helps. So a foot slogging army would work well when that pyramid is displayed on the board

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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by Koonitz » Mon May 15, 2017 4:33 pm

Kovlovsky wrote:
Koonitz wrote:That's difficult to say because, even though the Thousand Sons were always the smallest legion, they were still 50-80,000 strong at their peak prior to the Burning of Prospero. This gives you great leeway to field largely what you prefer.
Are you sure they were that numerous? I'm pretty sure I remember that in A Thousand Sons, they say at some point that before the Burning of prospero, they are about 10 000 and that after it, there are only slightly under 1000 survivors when they get to the Planet of Sorcerers. They always say that it's the smallest legion, even less numerous than the Salamanders. Has it been retconned in the new FW book Horus Heresy: Inferno?

Otherwise, if you want to play a fluffly TS army, I would suggest to not mechanise yourself too much. The legion was largely foot slogging and didn't have a lot of mechanised support. They seem to not having cared much about them. In A Thousand Sons, they are accompagned by a few Land Raiders when dealing with a psychic anomaly at some point. So, I would keep away from Super Heavy tanks and other armored support. On Prospero, at some point, the Magister Templi of the Pyrae takes control of a disabled Reaver Titant that was held as a statue to beat back the SW, but it was a one time event and it costs him dearly.
It was either the Inferno book, or "A Thousand Sons" where I read they still had a decent force, if small by comparison to the other Legions. When I get home, I'll try to remember to re-read it and see if I can find the reference.

Also, it was a Warlord Titan, not a Reaver, "Canis Vertex".
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

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Re: Suggestions for Fluffy Thousand Sons army

Post by Koonitz » Fri Jun 02, 2017 12:52 am

I apologize for how long this took to respond.
Inferno, Page 154, War Disposition wrote:The Thousand Sons Legion had never entirely shaken off the withering effects of the first decades of its existence. Over a century later, its near-extinction prior to the rediscovery of Magnus still left a shadow on the numerical strength of the Legion. Combined with its conservatism in recruitment, this legacy meant that they were amongst the smallest Legions at the time of the Burning of Prospero. Estimates of their strength place it as potentially being as high as 80,000-85,000 warriors - ironically perhaps their greatest ever number - immediately before their destruction, with the bulk of this strength located on Prospero when not explicitly sent upon a mission of conquest. Even at this level of manpower, the Thousand Sons comprised one of the smallest of the Space Marine Legions.
Found it.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

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