End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

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Zipding
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End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

Post by Zipding » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:02 pm

Greetings all!

I've been really interested lately in doing an End Times campaign/battle report series with my girlfriend, and we've gone through the scenarios in Nagash, and for the most part, she's chosen the Vampire Counts over their adversary. This means that I get Bretonnia for the first 2 scenarios and this is the best list I could come up with the points limit because I don't want to get too many models.

Requirements in the scenario:
All Peasant Archers must have the Braziers upgrade
1 Prophetess and 2 Damsels of the Lady

Here's the list I came up with:

Lords:
Bretonnian Lord - 249 points
Warhorse
Virtue of Stoicism
Grail Vow
Lance of Artois
Armour of Agilulf
Dragonbane Gem

Prophetess - 286 points
Level 4 Life
Barded Warhorse
Silver Mirror

Heroes:
Paladin - 175 points
Warhorse
Battle Standard Bearer
Grail Vow
Virtue of Knightly Temper
Enchanted Shield
Sword of Anti Heroes

Damsel - 130 points
Level 2 Life
Dispel Scroll

Damsel - 105 points
Level 2 Beasts

Core:
8 Knights of the Realm - 216 points
Full command

30 Men-at-Arms - 177 points
Full command

10 Peasant Bowmen - 65 points
Braziers

10 Peasant Bowmen - 65 points
Braziers

Special:
3 Pegasus Knights - 175 points
Musician

Rare:
Field Trebuchet - 100 points
Yeoman Craftman

Total: 1742 points

I didn't find anywhere for a points cost in the Bretonnian Army Book for a Battle Standard Bearer, so if there is one, I'll need to change up the list. But for the scenario, this is the list that fits it the most that I could think of.
Armies:
Lizardmen: 3200 points
Vampire Counts: 2500 points
Skaven: 2200 points

Amount painted by army:
Lizardmen: 97%
Vampire Counts: 92%
Skaven: 87%

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Re: End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

Post by TigerDave » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:09 pm

There is no points cost for the BSB upgrade.

Are you going to be playing End Times magic rules? Redundant mages of the same lore become less of a necessity. They still provide backup in case one decides they want to explode (like my Damsel did in the midst of my Knights lance, killing all but one of the lance in the process), and you can also use the second for advantageous maneuvers to cover more of the field, but your main can recast successful spells, and once a spell is unsuccessful you can't cast it any more that turn no matter how many mages you have.

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Re: End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

Post by Zipding » Mon Feb 02, 2015 12:10 am

With regards to the redundant mages, it's a requirement for the scenario that the Bretonnian player has 1 Prophetess and 2 Damsels in their list, and since I'm going up against Vampire Counts, I figured 2 Life and 1 Beasts were the best options for lores to use.

And for End Times magic, I'm not sure at this point. We're probably just going to be using the rules in the Nagash book for all the Nagash scenarios and so on.
Armies:
Lizardmen: 3200 points
Vampire Counts: 2500 points
Skaven: 2200 points

Amount painted by army:
Lizardmen: 97%
Vampire Counts: 92%
Skaven: 87%

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Re: End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

Post by TigerDave » Mon Feb 02, 2015 2:19 am

Sounds awesome.

If you can, take some pictures and do a battle report. Sounds like some good games. My only recommendation would be to try and expand your archers by another 10 per. I think you will find that you're not doing enough damage with two blocks of 10 to make a difference.

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Re: End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

Post by Zipding » Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:14 pm

TigerDave wrote:Sounds awesome.

If you can, take some pictures and do a battle report. Sounds like some good games. My only recommendation would be to try and expand your archers by another 10 per. I think you will find that you're not doing enough damage with two blocks of 10 to make a difference.
Increasing the number of archers would probably work, but I'm not sure where I can get the points from. I could probably drop the virtue on the Paladin and maybe the upgrade on the Trebuchet, but I already had to drop some stuff for the Pegasus Knights to fit the warmachine into the list.

I don't have any of the models yet because I want to craft my list and then buy it.
Armies:
Lizardmen: 3200 points
Vampire Counts: 2500 points
Skaven: 2200 points

Amount painted by army:
Lizardmen: 97%
Vampire Counts: 92%
Skaven: 87%

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Re: End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

Post by TigerDave » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:17 pm

When it comes to shooting, I backwards plan the number of wounds in one round to make on an average unit in order to cause a panic check. I aim for the panic check as my injury benchmark, and I would like to try and get that in one shooting phase. We will see that this is actually hard to do.

So, lets define the average unit as 20x T3 warriors. You can also plan for T4 targets but your numbers are going to go too high very fast. So, 25% of that block of soldiers is 5 wounds. Lets work this backwards now.

In order to cause 5 wounds with a S3 weapon, I need to roll 5/.50 (S3 on T3 wounds on a 4+, or 50%) hits, or 10 hits caused in order to average 5 wounds (not considering armor saves). That is a lot of hits, and you can see that a 10 unit block of archers is not going to be pulling that off regularly.

So, assuming we are firing B3 troops (hit on 4+), but at long range (-1 or 5+ to hit) ... 10 shots divided by .33 = 30 shots fired! 30 archers is a lot to get into one block, but I would try to get at least 15 into one block, set up in 2 ranks. Two blocks of 15 archers equals ... that 30 archer min cap we are trying to get to. If you can get two blocks of 20, even better.

As always, these are just guidelines. They don't take into consideration higher T, armor/ward saves, other unit compositions, etc., but they should help you plan for how many archers minimum you will want to attain. Anything below that value and you may want to think dropping archers for a more effective unit in the game.

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Re: End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

Post by Zipding » Tue Feb 03, 2015 1:29 pm

Okay, thanks for the help. I haven't really been a huge shooting phase fanatic (considering I play Lizardmen and Vampire Counts).

This is something worthwhile looking into since dropping the virtue on the Paladin gives me 6 more archers to play around with and I could probably drop points elsewhere to get 2 units of 15 archers.
Armies:
Lizardmen: 3200 points
Vampire Counts: 2500 points
Skaven: 2200 points

Amount painted by army:
Lizardmen: 97%
Vampire Counts: 92%
Skaven: 87%

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Re: End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

Post by LordOfTheUndead » Sat Feb 21, 2015 1:25 pm

In all honesty s3 shooting does very little to vampire counts. Unless you have 60+ archers, any wounds you do with "small arms" shooting will probably be negated quickly by their magic. War machines are the way to go against VCs because they can heavly damage things like terrorghiests, mortis engines and corpse carts that many VC players rely on to support their weaker combat troops.
That being said, having a few flaming arrows around will help negate some of the regeneration saves that are everywhere in some VC lists though. One unit of 10-15 bowmen w/ braziers is never a bad investment. Any more than that and you'll need a ton of bowmen to do appreciable damage.

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Re: End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

Post by Zipding » Sat Feb 21, 2015 6:18 pm

I have found a way to increase the number of archers that I have so they can be marginally more useful.

If I take away the vow on the Paladin, the upgrade on the Trebuchet, and the musician from the Pegasus Knights, that gives me enough points to fit in an additional 5 archers per unit, bringing the total up to 30 archers.

Unfortunately, I don't know where else I can get the points from aside from cutting models from the Men at Arms unit.

The main purpose for the Archer units are for bunkers for my Damsels since hopefully, they'll see less combat than the Men at Arms and Knights.
Armies:
Lizardmen: 3200 points
Vampire Counts: 2500 points
Skaven: 2200 points

Amount painted by army:
Lizardmen: 97%
Vampire Counts: 92%
Skaven: 87%

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Re: End Times Bretonnian Army List (1750 points)

Post by phatonic » Sun Feb 22, 2015 6:19 am

Flaming arrows are awesome to take away Regen. So bret archers are the way to go tbh.
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