You on standard

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Bone2pick
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You on standard

Post by Bone2pick » Thu Jun 06, 2013 11:26 am

Just thought I'd take the temperature in the room of everyone/anyone's thoughts on the current standard format? You can break it into two distinct parts for clarity; for example your local standard meta versus the national competitive standard. Are you thoughts favorable for either, how much or how little? No right or wrong answers of course.

Personally speaking I'm a bit disappointed at both my local meta & the competitive scene. If I had to pin down a reason for said disappointment it was probably my unrealistic expectations. I assumed a block like RGD, with its sweet mana base and thematic guilds would lead to a plethora of brews and interesting matchups. But what I've seen so far is the typical amount of variation at the competitive level, with maybe a smattering of more creative constructs in my local meta. And the card selection is often based on raw power level (which makes decks very samey) rather than great synergies/combos. It's not terrible, just not as I'd hoped.

Your turn.
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Zeruel13
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Re: You on standard

Post by Zeruel13 » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:22 pm

See this is why I don't play Standard. I'm still relatively new to Magic having been playing just under a year now but I like watching pro tour videos on youtube because I've found you pick up on how to become a better player when you see the subtler ways of playing from pro players. That said I take what I learn and apply it to a casual style of deck building. I have a group of half a dozen friends with like minded play styles. We build decks with a theme that I would say for casual are quite strong but wouldn't hold up in competitive play (for the most part). None of us are particularly interested in Standard or FNM because of what you said. In all these pro tour videos it kind of gets old seeing the same three decks used by every player. Most of the time it looks like a complete mirror match. Every deck has a Thragtusk, every deck has a Restoration Angel, every deck is running Sphinx's Revelation. Other than a few cards that comes down to personal taste in my experience anyway every deck has the same core cards and that just seems so incredibly boring to me.

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Re: You on standard

Post by Bone2pick » Thu Jun 06, 2013 12:47 pm

Your criticism is justifiable, and I certainly wouldn’t fault anyone for not playing standard. But there is of course, a flipside to that coin, as in positives of standard. Things like keeping cards fresh (example: lightning bolt or ponder rotating out). How else could searing spear compete with bolt? A smaller card pool format means a more concise plan to sideboard against. And of course, the most excitement for new cards releases, because they often have heavy impacts in standard. So drafting is fun plus gets you cards for your future standard decks. Not always the case for older formats. And finally it’s the easiest format to get started in and get games for. That’s a pretty biggie.

Just to be clear though, this thread is mainly for those who typically enjoy playing standard; it’s to gauge their perception of its current state. I like reading opinions like yours, but for the next few posts let’s not delve into 'is standard as a whole something you enjoy'.
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Re: You on standard

Post by MFletch » Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:49 am

Standard has no issues in deck diversity. There are tonne of different deck types.

The latest protour was actually block not standard, it was won by a home brew that admittedly was similar to most GW token decks.
The one before that was standard and won a home brew. Everyone now plays aristocrats but it did come from no where, though it did come from blood artist decks.

It was a little time ago when standard decks were delver or nondelver if you didn't want to play mirror matches all day.
Or all decks were Jace's.
Or stoneforge.
We are literally talking about the best deck by such a margin it was played by everyone. Admittedly in FNM delver tended to get played badly which let others win.

Not all decks play thragtusk, resto. or sphinx. Not even close. They are powerful cards that you expect to see but they are not even autoincludes in their colours.
There are a load of different competitive decks right now, enjoy it.

Usually the complaint with the current standard is that the meta is all over the place and you can not expect to be ready for every deck. Leading matches won by a coin toss.

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Re: You on standard

Post by Bone2pick » Fri Jun 07, 2013 9:12 am

MFletch wrote:Standard has no issues in deck diversity. There are tonne of different deck types.
MFletch with his opinion = facts. Why am I not surprised? A "tonne" of different deck types, is that at the competitive level, your local meta game, my local meta game, everyone's local meta game, or just a huge/one-size-fits-all blanket statement? I'm guessing based on your posting history it's the latter.
MFletch wrote:The latest protour was actually block not standard,
Then lets not reference it at all shall we. Lets keep other formats like block in other threads that are interested in them.
MFletch wrote:Usually the complaint with the current standard is that the meta is all over the place and you can not expect to be ready for every deck. Leading matches won by a coin toss.
Is that the usual complaint near you? I've never heard anything, read anything, or watched anything that hinted at current standard matches won by a coin flip. In fact I hear quite the opposite, that jund midrange along with junk reanimator are the two "best decks" and everyone need worry about facing those matchups. Please explain how yours differs.
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Re: You on standard

Post by Bone2pick » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:50 pm

In all these pro tour videos it kind of gets old seeing the same three decks used by every player. Most of the time it looks like a complete mirror match. Every deck has a Thragtusk, every deck has a Restoration Angel,
I agree with you more and more Z. Today I was surfing SCG and clicked on an article on what to watch for in the current standard format, and then shook my head and gave a sad laugh. Decks using very similar creature bases (and they're mostly creature based which is a bummer in itself), with spells that you just slam cause they're powerful. In the five decks I counted (including sideboard) the following.

Thragtusks - 12
Restoration angels – 6, with only two decks being white
Huntmasters – 11
Voice of resurgence – 8, with only two decks being white
Thundermaws - 14 (ugh...)

That looks like any typical standard, which is a waste imo. This is the Return to Ravnica block with a solid Innistrad block, where's the guild flavor? Where's the control decks (not midrange control)? Instead we have a bunch of red & green decks who may splash for something. Naya versus gruul, how samey can you get? No sweet orzhoz decks? No bang'n semic decks? There's just not the brews being represented that I expected, what with perfect mana and all.

Here's the article for those interested. Again standard doesn't suck, I just don't think it's living up to its potential.

http://www.starcitygames.com/article/26 ... onger.html
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Re: You on standard

Post by MFletch » Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:31 pm

Firstly, may I just say I do appreciate the difference between my opinions and facts. You could have asked me to back up what I say with concrete examples to prove what I mean.

Secondly, you have cited an article which star city try to sell cards. It gave, as you say, five decks.
One placed 15th in an open. That day someone brought aristocrats and another Naya humans then made to to the finals with virtually no cards from the article cited.
Jund, which has virtually no cards the same. There are jund builds that come close to the Naya build but choose not to report it.
Now the other 3 decks are suggestions that have not been tested nor brought to any event. These do not represent the meta but which cards star city wish to sell.
To reiterate the article is about 2 very different real decks, with some made up lists.

There has been 0 protours in this standard format.
There have been 1 grand prix in this standard format. This had near new zealand attendance levels with not many big names making the trip-to be clear this is not really a reliable point of data. This had only 4 decks in the top 8, with junk rites dominating, though none of the four archetypes shared many cards.

Anyway they have been a load of starcity opens, which have had plenty of players that are or were on the train.
Let's do the last three:
Dallas top 16: Naya aggro, bant auras, jund midrange, gruul aggro, Jund midrange, american control, RUG peddler, Gruul aggro, Jund midrange, golgari control, american midrange, Junk rites, gruul aggro, the aristocrats, naya midrange, bant aggro.
Obviously 3 jund decks and the 2 gruul decks suggest the format being stale but there are 12 decks in the top 16 all of the wildly diverse.

Baltimore Baby, top 16: Junk aristocrats, naya aggro, BR zombies, Naya aggro, BUG control, Naya aggro, Jund, Junk Rites, esper control, jund, naya aggro, naya humans, american midrange, american midrange.
Here we see less diversity, but then again how did BR zombies come back from the dead.
Most importantly I wish to point out that this event was won by a home brew.

St louis top 16: The aristocrats, naya aggro, naya midrange, american midrange, american midrange, Jund, esper control, junk rites, junk rites, naya aggro, naya midrange, Gruul aggro, the aristocrats, nay midrange, Jund.
This has hardly any variety but do like how aristocrats does nothing for 3 weeks then comes flying back to win.

So in conclusion if you wished to win a nice amount of money playing the game you enjoy in the last few weeks you had a choice of about 20 decks that were able to do it for you. The 20 decks covering a wide range of cards and styles for however you wish to play.

In terms of fluff.
Naya humans, is so flavourful from innistrad block.
Junk rites, despite playing cards from different sets is very reminiscent of avacyn.
Gruul aggro, is so gruul it actually hurts.
Aristcrats, is the horror flavour of innistrad, getting bonus from dying is sweet.
Junk aristocrats, is very much golgari flavoured.
Esper superfriends, is very much the multiplane planeswalker fluff styled deck.
Bant Auras is for anyone who hates life, which I am sure has something to do with fluff.

Anyway Peace out, with love x

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Re: You on standard

Post by Bone2pick » Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:51 pm

MFletch wrote:You could have asked me to back up what I say with concrete examples to prove what I mean.
I don't need to. If you're gonna throw around a statement about how standard "is" in terms of deck diversity, meaning it's your perspective or bust, then it's up to you to bring the data/examples. Even then it's foolish, cause the data still isn't on your side.
MFletch wrote:So in conclusion if you wished to win a nice amount of money playing the game you enjoy in the last few weeks you had a choice of about 20 decks that were able to do it for you. The 20 decks covering a wide range of cards and styles for however you wish to play.


That's your conclusion? Eh, I'm gonna have to pass on your interpretation of the grand prix results. It's a list of Naya/gruul agro, jund midrange, & junk rites, with a sprinkle of everything else. Combine that with naya and gruul playing similar cards, and jund midrange bringing nearly the same 75 everytime and you've got a samey format. Are there other decks being played? Of course, no one is arguing otherwise. But it's nearly as unimaginative as any other recent time in standard.

It's mostly a red/green (possible third color) format, and it's mostly an agro or midrange format. Just look at the articles on channelfireball for standard decks, the three most recent ones...Junk reanimator, aristocrats, & jund. I'm sure a naya article is in the works as I type this. It is what it is, but maybe your local meta is full of sweet new concoctions. :wink:
Space Marines excel at warfare because they were designed to excel at everything.

-Primarch Roboute Guilliman

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