BUG zombies

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Bone2pick
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BUG zombies

Post by Bone2pick » Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:49 pm

My esper deck is pretty tight atm so I'm starting a new brew to have fun with (not that my main deck isn't). Anyway I'm pretty sure this thing will fall short of being highly competitive but that's ok in my book. If I'm lucky a version of it'll see some casual play.

Creatures (30)
2 x deathrite shaman
4 x diregraf ghoul
4 x gravecrawler
3 x bloodthrone vampire
2 x knight of infamy
4 x lotleth troll
4 x dregmangler
4 x geralf's messenger
3 x duskmantle seer

Spells (7)
4 x tragic slip
1 x abrupt decay
2 x victim of night

Lands (23)
4 x woodland cemetary
4 x overgrown tomb
4 x watery grave
2 x drowned catacomb
8 x swamp
1 x breeding pool

Do I hate running a breeding pool in a deck with four messengers? You bet I do. But I think I'm really gonna need that extra green source to be able to come in untapped, so I'll have to gamble with it. And it's possible that duskmantle seer doesn't belong in the deck, but I'll be damned if I drop it. To be perfectly honest, it's the main reason I built this deck; just to give myself the opportunity to kill someone with its trigger. If that ever happens it'll all be worth it. 8)

Anyway, feel free to post constructive comments.
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Zero
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Re: BUG zombies

Post by Zero » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:15 am

The only thing that looks kinda out of place are the Knight of Infamy's. It doesn't really look like this is the kind of deck you want to be swinging with only one creature in. I think I'd prefer the extra Abrupt Decays or something. Maybe even some Vampire Nighthawks.
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Re: BUG zombies

Post by Bone2pick » Wed Apr 03, 2013 1:36 pm

Texted the deck list to a buddy of mine and he pushed (and I believe him to be correct) blood artist for this deck. So now I'll try and find some room to squeeze those in. Maybe the knights of infamy can be cut, maybe one lotleth troll too. It'll take some testing to be sure.
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Re: BUG zombies

Post by MFletch » Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:40 pm

It is crying out for a splash of red to bring in falkenrath aristocrat rather than blue, I know it is not the point. The knight of infamys look like they are designed for him.

Diregraf Captain would appear to fit your deck nicely.
I love evil twin. He is actually even useful, I would be willing to at least put him in against angel of serenity.
Also I wish to see your deck pull of a Rooftop Storm storm like win.

I quite the idea of a single rapid hybridisation, as it would catch players by surprise. Removal or else surprise blocker.
Also a single syncopate would be hard for your opponent to play around.

On a firmer more serious note, fog is awesome. Normally a bad card but your deck is bad at blocking it gives the extra velocity you actually need over the faster aggro decks.
Also thrill kill assassins are actually an excellent 2 drop if you need a replacement for the knight of infamy. They do not die to pillar of flame, they are good at blocking and really hard to block profitably.

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Re: BUG zombies

Post by Bone2pick » Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:10 pm

MFletch wrote:It is crying out for a splash of red to bring in falkenrath aristocrat rather than blue, I know it is not the point.
Yeah, that would defeat the purpose of the build, which is Duskmantle Seer aggro. I picked zombies for their on-color aspect and their resilience. But I'm not really interested in cookie cutter rakdos aggro.

I really like your fog suggestion though. I think I'll keep several of those in the sideboard and bring em in against fast decks.
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Re: BUG zombies

Post by Bone2pick » Thu Apr 04, 2013 11:19 am

List update. I took out the deathrites and put in blood artist.

Creatures (30)
4 x diregraf ghoul
4 x gravecrawler
3 x blood artist
3 x bloodthrone vampire
2 x knight of infamy
3 x lotleth troll
4 x dregmangler
4 x geralf's messenger
3 x duskmantle seer

Spells (7)
4 x tragic slip
1 x abrupt decay
2 x victim of night

Lands (23)
4 x woodland cemetary
4 x overgrown tomb
4 x watery grave
2 x drowned catacomb
8 x swamp
1 x breeding pool
Space Marines excel at warfare because they were designed to excel at everything.

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Re: BUG zombies

Post by Zero » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:02 am

I really still don't see the purpose of the Knight of Infamys. Have they ever proven useful? There are very few situations when I could see you benefiting from attacking alone instead of swinging with multiple guys. Even the Knight + Gravecrawler or whatever would be better than just one of them. Surely there are better 2-drops?
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Re: BUG zombies

Post by Bone2pick » Mon Apr 08, 2013 11:30 am

Zero wrote:I really still don't see the purpose of the Knight of Infamys. Have they ever proven useful? There are very few situations when I could see you benefiting from attacking alone instead of swinging with multiple guys. Even the Knight + Gravecrawler or whatever would be better than just one of them. Surely there are better 2-drops?


First, I haven't played the deck because my Geralf's Messengers and Lotleth trolls haven't arrived yet. So no, nothing has "proven useful" as of today. I'm surprised you're not more impressed with knight of infamy: surely you've played against the banging rakdos aggro decks that were popular before gatecrash dropped? Those decks alone provide all the answers for your questions. Rakdos aggro had a ton of creatures and still ran the knights, becuase exalted is strong, multiple triggers of it are even stronger, and pro white in some matchups is nightmare for your opponent. Exalted is often the differene between getting through Augur of bolas, or going over the top of boros reckoner (who shuts down my deck and most aggro decks).

It's a card that you'd do better playing with and against to see its value rather than me explaining it. But it is a card in aggro decks to be sure. This is kinda for nothing atm because I did drop him and other cards to run another variation of BUG zombies. Here's what I'm looking at currently Nick's deck tech with the exception of his charm package, which I'd like to substitute with other removal spells (mostly spells to murder and kill reckoner).
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Re: BUG zombies

Post by MFletch » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:04 pm

Knight of infamy in rakdos decks was the synergy with falkenrath aristocrat/the other .
Knight of infamy doesn't get past augur when not triggering exalted, which is the point 1 toughness is not that great especially as he will be needed to block.
Without exalted it is bad against most early creatures, 2 power will not kill a block and most blockers will have one power and not be white.
Your deck is not designed around only attacking with one creature.

Thrill kill assassin is probably better as a 2 drop. It can block better and will virtually always trade up when attacking. If you wished for a direct alternative.

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Re: BUG zombies

Post by Bone2pick » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:28 pm

MFletch wrote:Knight of infamy in rakdos decks was the synergy with falkenrath aristocrat/the other .
He had synergy with every creature. Being human harldy made any difference, it was his abilities that got him in the deck, and rakdos aggro wasn't designed to swing with one creature.

Knight of infamy doesn't get past augur when not triggering exalted ...Your point is? The exalted is there to trigger to get past augur..., which is the point 1 toughness is not that great especially as he will be needed to block. No more than rakdos aggro needed blockers, and I'm running lotleth troll.
Without exalted it is bad against most early creatures It powers up a big troll or messenger, or it swings through a clear board just fine., 2 power will not kill a block and most blockers will have one power and not be white.then it being exalted will help another creature pound through.
Your deck is not designed around only attacking with one creature. /sigh Thanks for the headsup. That was the direction I was planning on taking, truly.

Thrill kill assassin is probably better as a 2 drop. No its not, not in anyway. I'll let you play it.
In case you missed it, I've got my creature base already down as shown in the video.
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Re: BUG zombies

Post by MFletch » Mon Apr 08, 2013 5:02 pm

What is is his synergy with other creatures? If you can attack with one creature when he is on the board else you get the joys of 2 mana 2/1.

My point there is you can not attack with a knight and another creature if they have a augur on the field.

Rakdos aggro was beaten monored, as it was faster. Now naya blitz and monored see play and are faster. That is why blocking is now important for a slower aggro deck, which is fine as you have good blockers available to you.

So, you agree if does nothing about early creatures? Helping other creatures doesn't really help with the early board pressure.

So it gives exalted but doesn't block. So that does make it a bad blocker.

Thrill kill vs. other decks. 1/2 deathtouch is a good blocker better than 2/1, 2/3 deathtouch is hard to block and is better than 2/1 and mostly better than a 3/2. This does not take into account prowhite.

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Re: BUG zombies

Post by Bone2pick » Mon Apr 08, 2013 7:54 pm

MFletch wrote:What is is his synergy with other creatures? If you can attack with one creature when he is on the board else you get the joys of 2 mana 2/1.
Exalted works with any attacking creature (synergy all day every day). So a turn one diregraf into turn two knight lets you swing for 3 instead of two (btw, that was a big part of the rakdos' curve). That means more early damage or the ability to push through an augur or something equally annoying for aggro decks. He's also a two drop whose abilities stack, pretty stinkn good.
MFletch wrote:My point there is you can not attack with a knight and another creature if they have a augur on the field.

But you can push past him when the knight is out. That's the idea.
MFletch wrote:Rakdos aggro was beaten monored, as it was faster.
Monored was way less resistant. Rakdos had aristocrat, an insane finisher and more hardy than hellrider (which it also ran): and it had messengers which were good against removal. And it's card quality was higher cause it didn't need lack luster cards like gorehouse chainwalker. But honestly, lets not entertain that debate here, cause that's not what this thread is about.
MFletch wrote:So, you agree if does nothing about early creatures? Helping other creatures doesn't really help with the early board pressure.
No to the question and I reject its following statement. Helping other creatures like gravecrawler get bigger or push past blockers, is indeed, helping with pressure.
MFletch wrote:Thrill kill vs. other decks. 1/2 deathtouch is a good blocker better than 2/1, 2/3 deathtouch is hard to block and is better than 2/1 and mostly better than a 3/2. This does not take into account prowhite.
I've never even seen thill kill hit the table in constructed. If you like the card, then by all means jam it in your deck, but I'll pass on it. Knight is resistant to white blockers like resto angel and removal like azorius charm, and it can bump my duskmantle seer if the ground is clogged up. Given the choice between the two, I take the knight everytime.

If you don't mind, I'd like to end the knight of infamy discussion in here, cause it's simply gonna be an agree to disagree topic. For those following along, the card is outta my deck anyway, as I'm only running zombies and duskmantle seer now. So I don't wanna clog up my thread with talk about a card that's not making my deck. That seems pretty fair.
Space Marines excel at warfare because they were designed to excel at everything.

-Primarch Roboute Guilliman

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