Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Some members of the MiniWarGaming Community wanted to develop their own game; this is the official place to do that! Keep in mind that this is not related to MiniWarGaming's own project, Primal Horizon.
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Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Jaman » Wed Sep 02, 2009 8:02 am

ok guys its a day late but here are the V1.3 of the rules if these are ok i will start to write up stat lines for 2 of the factions initially so you guys can start playing (its going to be FPE, and ferals initially followed by hunters, red colony and finally resistance, in that order)

ok so here goes nothing

ok all modles will have the following profile

M movement
A attacks
Ho hits on in CC
Wo wounds on in CC
Hp hit points ( all models will have multiple wounds so that's why its called HP)
Mr Moral
S save
L luck ( characters only will alow a dice to be reroled in any phase for each point to be spent)

ranged weapons will have the following profile

Er Effective range
Ho hits on
Wo wounds on
S number of shots the weapon has
Sm save modifier

Close Combat Weapon

Im: Initiative Modifier (+1, -1, 0: act as normal)
Pr: Piercing ( Pr 1: roll as normal Pr 2/3: +1, Pr 4/5 +2, Pr 6: Auto Wound)


all units are in coherency if they are within 3" of each other and in LOS, and must shoot and assault at the same enemy unit.

a roll of a 1 always fails and a roll of a 6 always passes

any unit that failed a moral test regroups in the following phase if they pass a unmodified moral test

ok so here is the main body of the rules to play

initiative phase

the two players roll one dice each at the beginning of each turn, the highest gets to go first in the following phases

movement

- there are 4 styles of movement

1. overwatch - no movement but gives the model +1 modifier to hit and to wound in the following shooting phase

2. tactical - 1/2 M value but gives the model +1 modifier to hit in the following shooting phase

3. standard M value

4. double pace - 2xM value but cannot shoot or assault in the following phases however any unit shooting at them in the following phase gains -1 modifier to hit and to wound ( ie a weapon with a 3+ Ho and 4+ Wo now hits and wounds on a 4+ and 5+ plus respectively)

shooting


- declair target, this is on an individual basis ie 1 model can target any model it can see and any wounds caused by shooting apply only to that unit, if the target is in cover the shooting unit gets a -1 modifier to hit,

- check if target is not in effective range all shots hit and wound on 6's but the target has to still shoot no changing of target, if target is in range carry on as normal ( ie no modifier)

-roll an number of dice equal to the weapons S value to see if the weapon hits ( it hits on a result higher or equal to the weapons Ho stat + any modifiers)

-all successful hits are rolled to see if they wound ( they wound successfully if they roll higher or equal to the weapons Wo stat + any modifiers)

-opponent rolls save (passes if the result is higher or equal to the models S stat + modifiers) if failed the model loses one hit point for each failed save

if the targeted unit loses 2+ casualties they must take an unmodified Mr test ( passes on a result higher or equal to the models Mr stat)

for example if an FPE trooper shots his IM rifle at an enemy in range he rolls 2 dice, on a 4+ they hit one fails so only one dice is rolled to see if it wounds on a 4+, no failures this time so the opposing player rolls for his save ( normally a 5+ but due to the IM rifles Sm of 2 this would become a 7+ impossible on one dice however a roll of a 6+ always passes so the save is rolled for anyway but it fails so the feral lose one HP.

assault

- declare charge

- check range ( Mv value)

-both players roll for initiative the highest goes first the attacker gets a +1 bonus to their roll

-each model rolls a number of dice = to their A stat + 1for charging ( if they did) + any extra attacks from war gear

roll those dice to see if the model hits ( it hits on a result higher or equal to the models Ho stat + any modifiers)

-all successful hits are rolled to see if they wound ( they wound successfully if they roll higher or equal to the models Wo stat + any modifiers)

-opponent rolls save (modified by attackers weapon stat)

the opponent th gets his attacks back in the same way

work out who won assault ( the side with the highest number of unsaved wounds losses) and must take an moral test modified by the amount they lost by

ie if a FPE unit lost by 3 wounds their 4+ MR would become 7+ but would still pass on a 6 see the rulle written in red at the top

if the test is passed the units remain in combat, if it is failed that unit may fall back their movement distance, the winners can take a unmodified MR test, if that test is passed then they can attempt to chase the enemy down (ie move their movement distance, if the fleeing unit is caught they are cut down and the winning unit may make a tactical move in any direction though not into combat

all suggested changes have been made pls read and make any more if necessary (all changes in green)
Last edited by Jaman on Sun Sep 06, 2009 8:31 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Marine » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:07 pm

Human Spell Check:

All models will have the following profile:

M - Movement
A - Attacks
Ho - Hits on in CC
Wo - Wounds on in CC
Hp - hit points (all models will have multiple wounds so that's why its called HP)
Mr -Morale
S - Save
L - Luck (characters only will allow a dice to be rerolled in any phase for each point to be spent)

Weapons will have the following profile:

R - Range
Ho - Hits On
Wo - Wounds On
S - Number of shots the weapon has
Sm - Save Modifier


A unit remains in coherency if models are within three inches (3") of another model in the unit. The unit must attack a single unit as a target unless the profile has otherwise specified.

A roll of 1 always fails and a roll of a 6 always passes.

Any unit that failed a morale test regroups in the following phase if they pass an unmodified moral test.

Main Rules

Initiative phase

-The two players roll one dice each at the beginning of each turn, the highest gets to go first in the following phases.

Movement

there are 4 styles of movement

1) Overwatch - no movement but gives the model +1 modifier to hit and to wound in the following shooting phase

2) Tactical- 1/2 movement value but gives the model +1 modifier to hit in the following shooting phase

3. Standard movement value

4. Double Time - 2xM value but cannot shoot or assault in the following phases. However any unit shooting at them in the following phase gains -1 modifier to hit/to wound ( i.e. a weapon with a 3+ Hits on and 4+ Wounds on now hits and wounds on a 4+ and 5+ plus respectively)

Shooting


- Declare Target This is on an individual basis i.e. 1 model can target any model it can see and any wounds caused by shooting apply only to that unit, if the target is in cover the shooting unit gets a -1 modifier to hit. Each Squad must choose one target squad.

- Check Target Check if the target is in range, if not the unit suffers a -3 modifier to hit and to wound, if the target is in range carry on as normal (no modifier)

- Attack Roll an number of dice equal to the weapons S value to see if the weapon hits ( it hits on a result higher or equal to the weapons Ho stat + any modifiers)

- Wound All successful hits are rolled to see if they wound (they wound successfully if they roll higher or equal to the weapons Wo stat + any modifiers)

- Saves Opponent rolls to save (passes if the result is higher or equal to the models S stat + modifiers), if the unit is in cover they receive a +1 modifier to their save, if failed the model loses one hit point for each failed save.

If the targeted unit loses 2+ casualties they must take an unmodified Mr test ( passes on a result higher or equal to the models Mr stat)

For example if an FPE trooper shots his IM rifle at an enemy in range he rolls 2 dice, on a 4+ they hit. One fails so only one dice is rolled to see if it wounds on a 4+, no failures this time so the opposing player rolls for his save (normally a 5+ but due to the IM rifles Sm of 2 this would become a 7+, impossible on one dice, however, a roll of a 6+ always passes so the save is rolled for anyway, but the roll fails, so the Feral loses one HP.

Assault

- Declare Charge

- Check Range ( Mv value)

- Both players roll for initiative the highest goes first.

-Each model rolls a number of dice = to their A stat + 1 for charging (if they did) + any extra attacks from war gear.

-Roll those dice to see if the model hits ( it hits on a result higher or equal to the models Ho stat + any modifiers).

-All successful hits are rolled to see if they wound ( they wound successfully if they roll higher or equal to the models Wo stat + any modifiers).

-Opponent rolls to save (passes if the result is higher or equal to the models S stat modified by the difference between the models Ho's stats i.e. if a the FPE trooper is attacked by a feral and the feral hits and wounds the trooper, the troopers 4+ save would be come a 6+ the ferals Ho being 2+ compared to the troopers 4+ a difference of 2, therefore a -2 modifier) the opponent then gets his attacks back in the same way.

- Work out who won assault ( the side with the highest number of unsaved wounds losses) and must take an moral test modified by the amount they lost by. i.e. if a FPE unit lost by 3 wounds their 4+ MR would become 7+ but would still pass on a 6 see the rule written in red at the top

If the test is passed the units remain in combat, if it is failed that unit may fall back their movement distance, the winners can take a unmodified MR test, if that test is passed then they can attempt to chase the enemy down (i.e. move their movement distance, if the fleeing unit is caught they are cut down and the winning unit may make a tactical move in any direction though not into combat).

Comment:
Good Rules, might want to simplify the characteristic abbreviations, but overall well done.
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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Jaman » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:13 pm

thanks for the spell check according to the forum it was fine =]

any way the abbreviations may change in later versions now to wait for sage monkey

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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by SageMonkey » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:06 pm

Good but a few things bugged me:

Check Target: If a unit is not in range when you are shooting at it, you don't hit. Simple as that.

Saves: The opponent doesn't get a +1 to their save for being in cover, the shooting unit already gets a penalty. It's one or the other, not both, but I prefer the penalty to the shooter.

Assault Initiative Check: The Attacker gets +1 to initiative roll for CC, if the roll is equal to the opponents roll, the Attacker still wins.

CC weapons should have a simple statline. Here, I'll save you the trouble:

Close Combat Weapon

Im: Initiative Modifier (+1, -1, 0: act as normal)
Pr: Piercing ( Pr 1: -1 to a model's to wound roll, Pr 2: roll as normal, Pr 3: +1, Pr 4/5 +2, Pr 6: Auto Wound)

These will be the only two things on the statline, everything else is determined by the model's statline.


"-Opponent rolls to save (passes if the result is higher or equal to the models S stat modified by the difference between the models Ho's stats i.e. if a the FPE trooper is attacked by a feral and the feral hits and wounds the trooper, the troopers 4+ save would be come a 6+ the ferals Ho being 2+ compared to the troopers 4+ a difference of 2, therefore a -2 modifier) the opponent then gets his attacks back in the same way.
"

Get rid of this and just modify saves with a Weapon's special rules (if any at all) and to wound rolls with the Pr stat of the weapon.

Lastly, don't put examples for shooting and CC until the faction rules are written so we can have some solid examples with the units' statline and weapon statline.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks,

-sagemonkey

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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Marine » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:19 pm

actually there is a rule I've always wanted implemented in a game. Instead of a set range, there should be an effective range and then once out of effective range you can only hit on 6.
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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by SageMonkey » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:31 pm

WOLVERINES! wrote:actually there is a rule I've always wanted implemented in a game. Instead of a set range, there should be an effective range and then once out of effective range you can only hit on 6.

That might work, but I think that instead of a set range, just use the weapon's range, or is that what you mean? I think it should be that if you are not in range, you hit on a six unless you are out of range by maybe four or five inches.

Thanks,

-sagemonkey

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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Marine » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:45 pm

We could also have characters or special units (like snipers) that have a characteristic "sharpshooter" meaning out of the effective range you would hit at something like 5+.

And I meant you have a range where you use your best characteristic for shooting, but once the target is out of range you can still shoot but its harder to hit. Its like in a real war, you don't have to be close, but it helps a great deal. And you could have a range where its like 4 or less " and its 2+ to hit or something.

Edit: the thing is with a weapon's range, all firearms can shoot bullets that travel for miles.
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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Jaman » Wed Sep 02, 2009 5:56 pm

SageMonkey wrote:
WOLVERINES! wrote:actually there is a rule I've always wanted implemented in a game. Instead of a set range, there should be an effective range and then once out of effective range you can only hit on 6.

That might work, but I think that instead of a set range, just use the weapon's range, or is that what you mean? I think it should be that if you are not in range, you hit on a six unless you are out of range by maybe four or five inches.

Thanks,

-sagemonkey
this is what i meant in the first place i forgot to put in effective range
SageMonkey wrote:Good but a few things bugged me:

Check Target: If a unit is not in range when you are shooting at it, you don't hit. Simple as that.
i think we just solved this one =]


SageMonkey wrote: Saves: The opponent doesn't get a +1 to their save for being in cover, the shooting unit already gets a penalty. It's one or the other, not both, but I prefer the penalty to the shooter.
ok i can understand your point on this the reson i did two was to allow this point to come up and some one suggest which one to keep as i could see arguments about it if i chose one, now you have said which one ,makes sense i will change the rules acordingly
SageMonkey wrote: Assault Initiative Check: The Attacker gets +1 to initiative roll for CC, if the roll is equal to the opponents roll, the Attacker still wins.
i like this idea as it gives incentive to charge not to e charged
SageMonkey wrote: CC weapons should have a simple statline. Here, I'll save you the trouble:

Close Combat Weapon

Im: Initiative Modifier (+1, -1, 0: act as normal)
Pr: Piercing ( Pr 1: roll as normal Pr 2/3: +1, Pr 4/5 +2, Pr 6: Auto Wound)

These will be the only two things on the statline, everything else is determined by the model's statline.
i like the idea though have made some amendments as why would you take a CCW that made it harder for you to wound things

SageMonkey wrote: "-Opponent rolls to save (passes if the result is higher or equal to the models S stat modified by the difference between the models Ho's stats i.e. if a the FPE trooper is attacked by a feral and the feral hits and wounds the trooper, the troopers 4+ save would be come a 6+ the ferals Ho being 2+ compared to the troopers 4+ a difference of 2, therefore a -2 modifier) the opponent then gets his attacks back in the same way.
"

Get rid of this and just modify saves with a Weapon's special rules (if any at all) and to wound rolls with the Pr stat of the weapon.
will do as it makes less sense than your new method
SageMonkey wrote: Lastly, don't put examples for shooting and CC until the faction rules are written so we can have some solid examples with the units' statline and weapon statline.

Otherwise it looks good.

Thanks,

-sagemonkey
the only reason the example where there is to show what i meant they are not hard and fast and can change

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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Marine » Mon Sep 14, 2009 3:10 pm

Special Rules (ideas):

Stealth: Enemy must roll a 4+ to be able to attack.
Sharpshooter: Hits on 5+ when enemy is out of effective range
Rally: May ignore the need to take a morale test once each game.
Fearless: As long as more than 25% of the unit is alive no morale tests must be taken.
Instinct: May re-roll hits on rolls in close combat.
Healer: The unit with this trait may move into base contact for a full turn and then roll a dice to see if the unit survived. Passes on 5+.
Highly Trained Healer: The unit with this trait may move into base contact for a full turn and then roll a dice to see if the unit survived. Passes on 3+.
Spec-Ops: The unit has the stealth special rule with 3+ instead of 4+. May re-roll ranged combat to hit rolls.
Fury: If this unit takes a hit they gain the Instinct rule and gain the Shake Off rule.
Shake Off: The unit taking a wound can re-roll their save roll.
Last Stand: If the unit takes more than 75% casualties the remainders cause a morale check whenever they kill an enemy.
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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Jaman » Mon Sep 14, 2009 4:06 pm

WOLVERINES! wrote:Special Rules (ideas):

Stealth: Enemy must roll a 4+ to be able to see in shooting phase no effect in assault phase.
Sharpshooter: Hits on 5+ when enemy is out of effective range
Rally: May ignore the need to take a morale test once each game.(HQ onto a unit)???
Fearless: As long as more than 25% of the unit is alive all morale tests are assumed to be passed

Instinct: May re-roll hits on rolls in close combat.
Healer: the model with this rule if in bases to base contact with another model at the end of the movement phase may attempt to heal any depleted hit points on that model on a 5+
Highly Trained Healer: he model with this rule if in bases to base contact with another model at the end of the movement phase may attempt to heal any depleted hit points on that model on a 3+.[/color]
Special forces : The unit has the stealth special rule with 3+ instead of 4+.
Fury: If this unit takes a hit they gain the Instinct rule and gain the Shake Off rule. for the next turn
Shake Off: The unit taking a wound can re-roll their save roll.
i liked but i have changed a few and got rid of last stand ( i just didnt like it ) no offence meant and it inspired me to come up with a few myself
Sniper the unit/ model with this rule is set up after deployment anywhere on the board so long as it is not within line of sight of an enemy model
detachement the model with this rule is deployed with the parent squad however after deployment it can act on it own for the rest of the game and counts as its own unit

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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Marine » Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:54 am

I still want some form of last stand... :D I just want something so when your down to your last man that guy gets a bonus cause hes pissed off.
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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Jaman » Wed Sep 16, 2009 12:58 pm

maybe he becomes immune to all moral tests and can re roll any to hit in any phase

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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Marine » Wed Sep 16, 2009 6:07 pm

Sounds good to me
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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Marine » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:48 pm

I had an idea:


Addons for special units:

Addons are things worth a certain amount of addon points. There are two kinds of addons, positive, and negative. Negative addons do not count against your upgrade limit.

The amounts of upgrades are determined by unit classes

Heroes: 4 upgrades, may equal up to positive two, may have addons marked "Hero" and all others
Specialists: 3 upgrades, may equal positive one, may take all addons
Elites: 2 Upgrades, must equal zero, may not have "scout" addons
Scouts: 2 upgrades, must equal zero, may not have any addon marked "heavy"

Positive Addons:
Name Description Pts Mark Affects
Brute - Adds one Hp to the models statistics 1 Hero Leader
Sprinting - Adds two inches to movement 2 Scout Squad
Runners - Adds one inch to movement 1 Squad
Gunners - One more man in the squad can take a heavy weapon 1 Squad

Negative Addons
Name Description Pts Mark Affects
Limp - Subtracts one from movement 1 Squad
Weak - Subtracts one from HP 1 Squad
Bad Shot - Increases the roll to hit needed by 1 1 Squad
Last edited by Marine on Wed Oct 14, 2009 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rules version 1.3 comments and critisism only

Post by Jaman » Fri Oct 02, 2009 12:46 pm

are you developing any factions if so use it for them cos it sounds good but mabey not for all armies

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