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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:07 pm 
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so my buddy and i are still really new into warmachine and are loving it. he plays khador and i play cygnar. we both just jumped in and bougt models that looked cool before we really looked at what works well. he basically got all the khador character jacks. behemoth, beast 09 and drago. my army right now consists of...

pstryker and ehaley
ironclad
charger
lancer
journeyman warcaster
squire
stormguard
hunter
arlan strangeways
dannon blyth and bull

i just got my hunter and havent used him yet but im having a horrible time killing his jacks. i know thats the whole khador thing. but i cant do anything to them. i also just got my heavy warjack kit and i know the defender will help with that. but what can i do with what i have to take down one of his heavies. i plan on getting long gunners next but i feel like there has to be a way to at least make it a close game with what i have


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:48 pm 
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Yea, right now you've got LOTS of stuff for killing lights and infantry, but no heavy slayers. A hunter and defender will go a long way to helping with the heavy damage output; full Long Gunner CRAs can put a nice dent in any heavy as well. Hammersmith can be a solid choice too, his low MAT is offset by Khador's abysmal DEF so you can toss his Jack's around like toys will Chain Smites. A stormclad is definitely no slouch either, he's packin' the best melee weapon we've got (other than stormwall). Either of those Jack's bonded to Haley with full focus should be able to get the job done with ease. Rowdy is another decent choice since he can charge for free and spend that focus on an additional attack, plus all the other general awesomeness that comes with Rowdy.

You could also go for the sneaky route, grab a pack of Storm Smiths and just disrupt his Jack's every turn so they can't really do anything

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:41 pm 
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You could also get Aiyanna and Holt. She can use "Harm" which causes all subsequent damage rolls to the target to get a +2 bonus. Have Gorman de Wolfe throw a rust grenade on him after that for a further +2.

Like Badger says though, A good heavy jack with 2 melee weapons like the Hammersmith, or a really good weapon like Rowdy's or a Stormclad's should do the trick. Remember too that if you damage it so bad that it only get's 1 die on attacks and damage rolls or loses it's cortex systems it's basically useless anyways, as long as there are no mechanics around.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:57 pm 
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Badger made one often overlooked, but important, point. There are always more than one way to skin a cat. High ARM targets are often slower or at least lower in DEF and more vulnerable to debuffs or other methods of neutralization.

I know one of the Nemos has a wicked spell that really jams a jack up, and more than one of they are running close to each other. With his movement shenanigans he can also make good opportunities for alpha strikes.

Badger mentioned disruption. Messing with an opponents game, messing up their plans, will mess them up.

Also, anything like a Centurion to take away the alpha strike/charge.

But Craag also mentioned one reeeally effective way to soften those high ARM targets up, with those mercs.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:03 pm 
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It is big and slow... stay away from it.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:02 pm 
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It has guns....

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:31 am 
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Yeah, the Behemoth is nasty, no matter what you do, but that is why he is 13 points. Personally, I like tossing him into a puddle and wathing him struggle his way out across the next couple of turns, but it's no mean feat to pull off with most armies. Bring the big guns, or find a way to lock in down - maybe drown him in bodies?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 2:45 am 
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OK... I looked this one up and it is annoying. I can see a few options. Best is likely is get him in combat with cheap troops as he will likely not want to allocate focus to take them out, but can not fire while in hand to hand and his MAT 6 and 2 POW12 fists he is not doing a lot. This also means he does not do a lot of damage to Warjacks and an Ironclad (maybe with Blur and Arcane Shield cast on him) can get into combat with him and take him out. Yes you are at something like Dice -3, but he worse.

Being a Cryx player I do not worry too much about them as I can take cheap troops to tie him up, I can also pin him down with a Pistol Wraith, and a Cankerworm with 3 focus (and maybe Parasite) would likely drop him fast... 4 attacks S11 armor piercing tends to mess up most thing fast. On a charge that is likely 4 hits (4+ to hit) at 3D6+2 for an average of 50 damage.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:14 am 
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Except behemoth's fists are Armour Piercing, so that Pow 12 is rolling at something more in the Dice+3 range. I'm also reasonably sure his sub-Cortex allows him to fire his cannons while engaged. Most Khador casters can't handle more than just him on their focus load though, so you should be able to focus fire all your heavy guns at him and put him down before he causes too much damage.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 7:16 am 
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Actually Armour piercing on Cankerworm is a * attack. That means only the first attack (hopefully the 1 charge attack) gains the armour piercing ability. POW 11. Pretty sure Behemoth is ARM 21 so that means it's strait dice damage too, halved ARM rounds up when it's odd. It could be a pretty devastating attack if you roll well but you will not destroy Behemoth with it and in all likelihood won't take out more than 1 system (if that).

All subsequent attacks after the initial will barely tickle the Behemoth and then he'll simply step on and squash Cankerworm like a bug.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:35 am 
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Wait... so you are saying that if he does his bite attack that is the only attack he can do, or that I can not buy extra attacks with the bite or both? I'm not really sure how to handle the *Attack on a regular attack... it is usually a *Action.

Sorry about the sideline. I was looking through Army Builder and it hides the Armor Piercing a bit on the Behemoth. Make sure you hit it hard the first time and take it out. You can get you unit up to a 14DEF with a spell I think and maybe cut down on the damage they take and tie him up long enough, but with what you have you might just hurry the game to limit the number of shots he gets. Set up more terrain... Give yourself lots of trenches and wall and obstacles so he does not get direct hits with these guns. A +4DEF always helps.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 10:49 am 
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Todda: You can still buy additional attacks, they just lack the armour piercing trait. Using a *Attack action forfeits your initial attacks, but you can still buy additional ones.

Another thought: Take eHaley with a squire, arc Telekinesis at him every turn, push him back 2" and turn him around. This should more or less keep him out of the game, or at the very least drive your opponent completely mad with frustration.

pStryker can also tag him with a knockdown/disruption combo and cause hilarity to ensue while Behemoth spends the entire game on his back.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Well I am not sure on the rules of a behemoth, BUT commandos seem interesting due to anatomical precision where each one will do one damage AT LEAST if they hit it. And since it is huge and slow I doubt it is going to dodge a close combat attack.

Example:
10 Commandos, 10 attacks (combine that with eHaley's ability to Temporal Acceleration giving each one a second hit in range). So 20 damaged boxes with only one 10 man unit.

How much does a Behemoth cost to be in a list? Well over 10 points right totally worth it. Also Commandos have stealth which help protecting them from ranged attacks as they get up and close.

Odd how such a small unit might be effective. Also I wonder what a Hunter can do cutting its Armour in half (which I don't know its values but possible for it to take it down).

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:28 pm 
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Ricer wrote:
Well I am not sure on the rules of a behemoth, BUT commandos seem interesting due to anatomical precision where each one will do one damage AT LEAST if they hit it. And since it is huge and slow I doubt it is going to dodge a close combat attack.

Example:
10 Commandos, 10 attacks (combine that with eHaley's ability to Temporal Acceleration giving each one a second hit in range). So 20 damaged boxes with only one 10 man unit.

How much does a Behemoth cost to be in a list? Well over 10 points right totally worth it. Also Commandos have stealth which help protecting them from ranged attacks as they get up and close.

Odd how such a small unit might be effective. Also I wonder what a Hunter can do cutting its Armour in half (which I don't know its values but possible for it to take it down).


Anatomical Precision only works against living models. Sword Knights can do this though, and are 4 points cheaper. Combo them with another 'jack (lancers are EXCELLENT for this) and they can actually deal some serioous damage on a charge. Runewood and the Sword Knight UA can bring a few other tools with them that make them more useful than just tar-pitting Behemoth as well.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:43 pm 
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* Attack. This is your only attack that turn without spending extra Focus to make more attacks, as Badger stated it replaces your initial attacks. If it is attached to a weapon (as it is with Cankerworm) you can use it in a charge and it does gain the boosted damage roll.

So the Armour Piercing only affects the * Attack. All other attacks purchased with Focus after the armour piercing * attack are normal attacks and will not benefit from a * attack rule even though they may be from the same weapon.


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