Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

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WandalfTheGhite
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Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby WandalfTheGhite » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:20 pm

Hey everyone so I've been getting a bit bored of 40k so I'm going to start Warmachine, I've got enough to buy a battlebox right now but I was wondering if they are a good deal. I was thinking of starting Khador as I like their warjacks, but I sort of also like cryx, which one has a better battlebox? I was also wondering what to get after the battlebox, any suggestions would be awesome, thanks.
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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby Bigbul » Sat Aug 04, 2012 8:32 pm

Khador's box is far worse than Cryx's. Come to think of it, theirs is one of the best - but you shouldn't pick which faction to play based off which battlebox is superior.

I don't know much about Cryx, but if I could recommend something it'd definitely be a unit of bane thrall's with the UA and Bane Lord Tartarus.

For Khador, I'd recommend picking up a unit of Winterguard (not the rifle corps) with the UA and Kovnik Joe.

Both of these will give you a really solid unit that's incredibly durable.
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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby Eillas » Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:47 pm

I would in no way shape or form say that Cryx's is way better then Khador's. They both have their ups and downs.

I you are starting with battlebox games. Focus allocation in the cryx box is going to be tough, cryx likes to cast spells and cripple their targets before the battle starts With 3 light jacks and an underwhelming Stalker throwing around spells and buying extra attacks is tough.

Khador you get 2 heavy jacks (khador on has heavies outside of the one you get with a caster) so the focus allocation is much easier to deal with, however Khador being a very slow army you are going to eat the range until you slog up the field.

Both armies have very easy additions to make from the battlebox like Bigbull said you can get the Bane Thralls with UA and Tart, for a quick upgrade and Khador you can do the death star with the Winter Guard and Kovnik Joe, you can also add in widowmakers which are some of the best ranged units in the game.

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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby WandalfTheGhite » Sat Aug 04, 2012 11:33 pm

I'm liking the idea of Khador, what is their backstory like? I'm hoping for it to be a fresh start right out of 40k, though I'm going to need some help with list building and the rules, for my first question:
How many points come in the battlebox, and how should I effectively use the units from the battle box?
Thanks.
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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby Celedor » Sun Aug 05, 2012 12:37 am

Start small. Don't concern yourself with units (groups of warrior models) yet. Focus on the battlebox models to start, so you can learn about battlegroup (Warcaster and Warjacks) dynamics. Once you've played a few games at that level and you've achieved some familiarity with focus mechanics, start considering a solo or two to get to 15 points. Then start considering what units might best fit your playstyle and what would be effective against your local gaming companions.

As far as gameplay, keep Sorcha well defended (Fog of War, Wind Rush), use Boundless charge to try and get first strike or use for a counter-charge. Feat to lock your opponent in place for a turn of devastation and ruin. Try for ranged damage where you can, but all your models hit harder in melee, and don't commit Sorcha unless you intend to cripple or finish your opponent.

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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby Flindo » Sun Aug 05, 2012 4:50 am

my opinion is:
the best battleboxes are:
Cryx
Trollbloods
Menoth
Cygnar

The worst battleboxes are:
Khador
Legion of everblight (spamming 4 models just doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me)

also man, just get what army you like best, because its your army, it doesnt matter about our opinions at the end of the day.
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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby Paladin-Zebra » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:02 am

I dont know much about Khador but I know that just as all battle boxes it comes with 11 points.

As for fluff wise they are almost taken directly out of Russian history. Its pretty much Russia prior to WW2 only with giant steam powered mechs.

With the battle box contents you only get 2 heavy jacks, its not alot but it can still do enough damage, The Juggernaut can pretty much go toe-to-toe with any other jack in the game. Your destroyer has a ranged attack but dont focus on it to much, its great against infantry but its not going to really scratch anything tougher then a light jack, but dont let his big gun fool you! he can maul the living daylight out of a heavy jack if it really wanted to. Your jacks are slow and big and they WILL get hit, but they have enough health to shake off most of the damage so dont let a few bullets holes keep you pinned.

That's all I've got on khador atm but the last piece of advice i can give is to get a war dog, apparently they are really good but the only time ive ever seen one in action i sorta put an artillery shell into its skull... so... yah...
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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby Paladin-Zebra » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:05 am

Sorry for the double post

Flindo wrote:The worst battleboxes are:
Khador
Legion of everblight (spamming 4 models just doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me)


I played legion for a while and their battle box is great if you know how to use it, I went un-defeated for my first 17 games and over 50% of those were with the battle box.
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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby WandalfTheGhite » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:12 am

Ok I think I'm going to go with Khador, I'll get the battlebox and try it out, the battleboxes come with the cards, right? As well any Khador players out there with tips for my first game?
Thanks.
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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby Celedor » Sun Aug 05, 2012 11:33 am

WandalfTheGhite wrote:Ok I think I'm going to go with Khador, I'll get the battlebox and try it out, the battleboxes come with the cards, right? As well any Khador players out there with tips for my first game?
Thanks.


Yes, cards included. I also mentioned a few tips previously. There's not a great deal of insight to offer in such small games. It's all about familiarity with rules and activation early on. Just have fun learning. :)

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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby ArqArturo » Sun Aug 05, 2012 2:30 pm

I started with Khador as well. It's hard because Khador focuses on heavy warjacks (there's only one light warjack in the whole army), but, Khador is made to last. Like Celedor said, keep Sorscha on the back lines and well-defended, and let the warjacks take the main beating, they can take it.
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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby ltmechanicus » Sun Aug 05, 2012 3:08 pm

I think I should chime in to say that battleboxes do not all come in at 11 points. The Cryx box is actually 14 even after taking the caster into account...(4+4+5+6-5)

As a Khador player myself I can say that the Khador box can have serious problems if you are not sufficiently cautious. You need to realize that you will be outnumbered in every case and this can lead to being overwhelmed very easily. Luckily Sorscha is a slippery caster and can move around the board very impressively. She will go down in 1-2 hits though if solid hits actually manage to connect. She has low focus and can never seem to utilize her jacks and her spells in the same turn with much effect.

It comes down to this: If you can manage to get the charge on your enemy's heavy and/or destroy it from range with the destroyers bombard, they will not be able to take down your heavies and you will likely win. If you just runstraight forward and let the enemy decide the terms of engagement they will either disable your jacks (Cryx) or destroy them outright. They are slow and therefore at risk of being outmaneuvered.

Khador has many strengths that I do not think the battlebox adequately communicates.

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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby Bigbul » Sun Aug 05, 2012 5:30 pm

ltmechanicus wrote:I think I should chime in to say that battleboxes do not all come in at 11 points. The Cryx box is actually 14 even after taking the caster into account...(4+4+5+6-5)

As a Khador player myself I can say that the Khador box can have serious problems if you are not sufficiently cautious. You need to realize that you will be outnumbered in every case and this can lead to being overwhelmed very easily. Luckily Sorscha is a slippery caster and can move around the board very impressively. She will go down in 1-2 hits though if solid hits actually manage to connect. She has low focus and can never seem to utilize her jacks and her spells in the same turn with much effect.

It comes down to this: If you can manage to get the charge on your enemy's heavy and/or destroy it from range with the destroyers bombard, they will not be able to take down your heavies and you will likely win. If you just runstraight forward and let the enemy decide the terms of engagement they will either disable your jacks (Cryx) or destroy them outright. They are slow and therefore at risk of being outmaneuvered.

Khador has many strengths that I do not think the battlebox adequately communicates.


This is exactly what I was getting at when I said Khador had one of the worst battlebox of them all, and why Cryx is one of the strongest.

All of the above advice is solid, and the only thing I could really add at this point is about Sorscha. When it comes down to it, she's really got one thing going for her - her feat turn. To be fair, it will probably win you games vs inexperienced players but anyone that has played against her once will know exactly what to expect.

That being said, you should still pick what you like the look of, not how well their battlebox preforms.
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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby Zweedish9 » Sun Aug 05, 2012 10:49 pm

The Cryx Battlebox is 13pts actually.

The Khador Battlebox really isn't a good place to start. pSorscha really isn't a good caster and doesn't really represent the standard extremely hardy, Khador Caster.

I wouldn't start with the Battlebox, it doesn't contain enough value in it that you will use on a regular basis. Instead, I would buy the standard Warjack kit, along with a Black Ivan upgrade, and magnetise it for a Juggernaut, Destroyer, and Black Ivan. I would then buy pButcher or pVlad, two good casters to start with. A kodiak or a clam-shell Jack would then also be good-the Spriggan is our best non-character jack.
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Re: Battleboxes and Starting Warmachine

Postby WandalfTheGhite » Mon Aug 06, 2012 12:06 am

I think I want to start with the battlebox at least to start since I really have no idea what I'm doing, I just calculated on Army Builder and the battlebox comes in at 16 (?) points. My friend and I who I convinced to play are going to go down to the store and look at the Warmachine stuff, he wants to start Retribution, he doesn't like that they don't have a battlebox so he might play Trollbloods, any suggestions for him to starting Retribution? As well which solo should I look into, I like the look of Man-O-War Kovnik, but any other suggestions would be awesome, thanks.
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