It is currently Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:41 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:43 am 
Offline
MiniWarGaming Zealot

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:37 am
Posts: 206
Kris Knives wrote:
Well on top of that I think the Sisters need more Elite and Troop options. Right now at least Sisters have 1 excellent HQ, one very solid Heavy Support and some playable fast attack options, however their elites seem very weak and one troop choice is very restrictive.


That's certainly true. I thought that codex updates were supposed to add options, yet sisters have lost access to assassins, inquisitors and henchmen (both of which ended up in the Gk codex, which certainly didn't need them), and 3 troop choices - 2 of which were excellent plasmagun units.

Sisters now badly need some more options in their troops and elites sections. Furthermore, their HQ is a complete mess. Celestine should really be toned down (Sisters shouldn't be relying on a unit as good in combat as a Dark Eldar Archon to win battles). Then, the canoness and confessors should really be improved - they're not great on their own, and so should really be adding to their squad's defence or shooting capability.

Kris Knives wrote:
Celestian Squads are way over priced as they are only a tiny upgrade on standard Sisters and the Repentia Squad just doesn't bring enough to the table (particularly their weak faith power) and carry some serious drawbacks. Even the 5 slot free Priests need some updating IMO.


Celestian squads are dreadful, and an example of why Cruddace is such a terrible designer. Celestines are seemingly supposed to be good at both combat and in assault, but in actuality are crap at both.

For 175pts, I can have either a 10-man (well, 10-woman) celestian squad with 2 meltas, or a 10-man dominion squad with 4 meltas. The dominions aren't any good in combat - but then neither are celestians. WS4 and 2 attacks does nothing to defer the fact that they're I3. They just aren't good enough in combat to be viable. Furthermore, their power only really helps them in combat, whereas the dominion act of faith can at least gaurentee some decent melta hits.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:57 pm 
Offline
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:48 pm
Posts: 560
Virideon wrote:
Celestine should really be toned down (Sisters shouldn't be relying on a unit as good in combat as a Dark Eldar Archon to win battles). Then, the canoness and confessors should really be improved - they're not great on their own, and so should really be adding to their squad's defence or shooting capability.


Honestly I don't know why they even include the confessors as an HQ option. You can only take two HQs and with Kyrinov & Uriah Jacobus in the Codex I don't see why would ever downgrade to a Confessor if for some reason you became insane and decided not to run Celestine. It would be one thing if they were slot free like the priests but even then one would only take them to get more Battle Conclaves in play.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:02 am 
Offline
MiniWarGaming Zealot

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:37 am
Posts: 206
Kris Knives wrote:
Honestly I don't know why they even include the confessors as an HQ option. You can only take two HQs and with Kyrinov & Uriah Jacobus in the Codex I don't see why would ever downgrade to a Confessor if for some reason you became insane and decided not to run Celestine. It would be one thing if they were slot free like the priests but even then one would only take them to get more Battle Conclaves in play.


As it stands, SoB is perhaps the best example of a codex where the Special Characters are a legue above the standard HQs. Considering that there's barely even a cost difference between them, there's just no reason to take anythign other than Celestine and Uriah.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:22 am 
Offline
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:48 pm
Posts: 560
No argument here. Though you might at least defend the Sisters of Battle on the ground that they are stick between a rock and hard place as GW clearly doesn't want to add any new units without new models and they clearly don't want to make the SoB's as strong the Space Marines due to the existing fluff and to keep Space Marines #1.

So they really have only a few options:

-Give the Sisters some sort of unique equipment and weapons to try and put them on part with other armies
-Really work their unique faith mechanic for all it is worth to equalize the army
-Buff the hell of their HQ's to try and make up for Sub-part troops

Obviously option 3 was the "safest" option so that is just what they went with. They are really not making any money on the Sister's at the moment so they probably don't want to give them too much good and interesting stuff until they have plastic models ready to go. (If that ever comes to pass.)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:42 am 
Offline
Lives, breathes, and eats MiniWarGaming

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:23 pm
Posts: 1306
Location: maryland, united states
The white dwarf "codex" was basically just an glorified FAQ. When they get a real new codex I'm sure they will have new units to replace the inquisition units that were retained by the grey knights.

_________________
Ultramarines 9260 Dark Eldar 1000
Blood Angels 2000 Csm 950
Grey Knights 2000 Tyranids 900
Necrons 1850 Tau 900
Dark Angels 1100 Guard 505


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:04 am 
Offline
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:48 pm
Posts: 560
Silentbob711 wrote:
The white dwarf "codex" was basically just an glorified FAQ. When they get a real new codex I'm sure they will have new units to replace the inquisition units that were retained by the grey knights.


Don't you mean if they get a real new codex?

Though I hope since they've pulled all the inquisition stuff to the Grey Knights now they focus more on the Sisters and don't add a more things like Arco-Flagellants or a new "battle bishop". I don't expect them to drop the non-sisters units, but I certainly wouldn't mind if they did or at least tried to make them cooler then the non-sister units we have now. I like some of the benefits Jacobus and Kyrinov bring for example but their models are pretty boring and ugly when compared to how awesome something like a Space Marine Chaplin or an Eldar Phoenix Lord looks.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:04 pm 
Offline
Lives, breathes, and eats MiniWarGaming

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:23 pm
Posts: 1306
Location: maryland, united states
No I mean when. They did this same thing with blood angels I believe. They updated them in a white dwarf then later got a real codec. Now I'm not saying it will be anytime soon but they have been working on plastics for sisters but have had issues with them and when they eventually get that worked out you could start looking for a new codex. This probably won't be till like 2013 though late 2012 at best.

_________________
Ultramarines 9260 Dark Eldar 1000
Blood Angels 2000 Csm 950
Grey Knights 2000 Tyranids 900
Necrons 1850 Tau 900
Dark Angels 1100 Guard 505


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 9:40 am 
Offline
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:48 pm
Posts: 560
Silentbob711 wrote:
No I mean when. They did this same thing with blood angels I believe. They updated them in a white dwarf then later got a real codec. Now I'm not saying it will be anytime soon but they have been working on plastics for sisters but have had issues with them and when they eventually get that worked out you could start looking for a new codex. This probably won't be till like 2013 though late 2012 at best.


We'll see. I hope you are right, but given how many armies need new models and updates, particularly with 6th edition arriving soon, it certainly makes me worried the Sisters will get left behind yet again or worse absorbed into another once more rather then be allowed to grow into a full independent army.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:28 pm 
Offline
Lives, breathes, and eats MiniWarGaming

Joined: Fri Feb 19, 2010 1:23 pm
Posts: 1306
Location: maryland, united states
I don't think you have to worry about them going anywhere. They wouldn't have even given them the update if they were going to drop them. And in terms of models needing an update I think they are in the worst position of any army. I don't think they have any plastic kits aside from rhinos and the like. Everything else is metal or finecast. And as for being absorbed into someone else, I think it will end up being like the grey knight codex. Where it is focused on the sisters but has a support/mini army in it like the inquisition in the knights.

_________________
Ultramarines 9260 Dark Eldar 1000
Blood Angels 2000 Csm 950
Grey Knights 2000 Tyranids 900
Necrons 1850 Tau 900
Dark Angels 1100 Guard 505


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:01 am 
Offline
MiniWarGaming Zealot

Joined: Fri Jan 20, 2012 5:37 am
Posts: 206
Kris Knives wrote:
So they really have only a few options:

-Give the Sisters some sort of unique equipment and weapons to try and put them on part with other armies
-Really work their unique faith mechanic for all it is worth to equalize the army
-Buff the hell of their HQ's to try and make up for Sub-part troops

Obviously option 3 was the "safest" option so that is just what they went with. They are really not making any money on the Sister's at the moment so they probably don't want to give them too much good and interesting stuff until they have plastic models ready to go. (If that ever comes to pass.)


Thing is, they could have helped matters by making their troops less sub-par, and making faith a bit more useful.

Furthermore, they buffed some of the special characters. However, they apparently did this at the expense of the standard ones. Blessed weapons (essentially the SoB equivilents of Relic Blades, which were also master-crafted) vanished except on Saint Celestine. Why? They were one of the best pieces of wargear, and could have given Canonesses decent CC support abilities.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Faith too random?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:09 am 
Offline
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:48 pm
Posts: 560
Virideon wrote:
Thing is, they could have helped matters by making their troops less sub-par, and making faith a bit more useful.

Furthermore, they buffed some of the special characters. However, they apparently did this at the expense of the standard ones. Blessed weapons (essentially the SoB equivilents of Relic Blades, which were also master-crafted) vanished except on Saint Celestine. Why? They were one of the best pieces of wargear, and could have given Canonesses decent CC support abilities.


I agree they could and should have, but it seems that making sub-par troops and over powered HQ's was easier. Maybe they figured that since the Sisters are so expensive right now people would want to run the fewest number of models possible and would want to try more on things like the HQs.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group