Does any one think the orks need an update?

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Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby TyrantEatos » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:41 am

I was looking through the Codex i could see a few thing I would change but is a new codex worth it if they change everything?
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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby Dez » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:50 am

I think about this quite a lot myself, and I really like our current codex. Of course, I wish Flash Gitz had more prominence and they bring back Nazdreg :) Burnaz in trukk boy squads...
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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby Zeruel13 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:03 am

Orks have stood up fantastically if you ask me. I find some things odd about it (why Flash Gitz are Heavy and Lootas are Elite and not the other way around for one) but overall the book is incredibly functional, still competes in many different ways, is still a blast to play and play against and most of all gets the spirit of the army dead on. Now this coming from someone who doesn't play Orks of course. I don't think it needs an update at all though there are a few changes I think would be cool to be made.

For starters like I said I think Lootas should be heavy support and Flash Gitz elites and some how make the Flash Gitz a more attractive option whether making them slightly cheaper or whatever. The only other thing I'd like to see changed is a more mutable Looted Wagon entry. Have a base profile for a vehicle and have more options to convert it and change it. I know it's close to that now but it would be cool to have the options of making more transport oriented ones, more tank oriented ones and more war wagon oriented ones with crazy deff rollas and such. Basically a vehicle and options that can reasonably represent an Ork looted version of most vehicles you could imagine the Orks stealing.

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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby khani » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:07 am

In one way, yes they are fourth Ed

But in every other way they are golden, balanced and Crazy fun
..... :mrgreen:
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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby Madcat87 » Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:13 am

Would I like an updated Codex? Yes.

Do orks need an update? No.

As much as I would like to see it updated as there are a lot of things that could be changed/fixed/added I feel overall the ork codex is one of the few that has held up really well against the test of time and can still easily hold its own against the newer releases. It still has lots of strong competitive options while still maintaining the 'feel' of the army.

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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby sebastionsynn » Thu Mar 08, 2012 6:43 am

For starters like I said I think Lootas should be heavy support and Flash Gitz elites and some how make the Flash Gitz a more attractive option whether making them slightly cheaper or whatever


the best way to make this happen is to change Flash Gitz into the Elite section, as it stands now they are competing against the Battlewagon for choice of list. another way would be to allow them to have a battlewagon as a dedicated transport. or introduce a new/old warboss that allows them to be taken as troops.

as to the question of do we need a new codex, i don't think so either, we do need a few changes and that's about all, but you know GW once they get their little piggy fingers into something, they have to go all the way and screw things up as much as possible.

changes i'd like to see, Burnas w/ dedicated transport, Deffkoptas w/ exhaust cloud(actually Dust cloud, but hey) Nob Bikers with 3 wounds rather than 2(if a boy on a bike gets an extra wound, so should the nob on a bike), but then again nob bikers do get the painboy, so i guess it evens out. Meganobs with more wargear options so they can take on more than just the role of heavy crumpers, for instance give them the choice of a painboy as well, and the choice of a waaaugh banner etc, etc.

I do like the idea of a more versatile wargear listing for the Looted Wagon as well, but i would like to see it more specific so it could be listed rules wise to match the conversion. IE: 'x' pts for Anti-Grav, 'x' pts for side sponsons, 'x' pts for deffrolla, 'x' pts for KFF, 'x' pts for increased transport bay enabling it to carry 3 killa kans or 1 deff dread.
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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby MFletch » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:16 am

Game play wise i think orks just need some better antimech and they would be ok.

Given how balance works it is a little much to ask for better units as it would have to lead to losing other elements to equal it out and I'm happy with what we have.

I would like to see the return of some of the more wonkier ork elements. So mad boyz and things like Pulsa rocket. Having said that i suppose currently the codex has random elements like the SAG and warpheads without slowing the game down.

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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby Tarkand » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:38 am

Need is a big word.

The ork codex still hangs in there despite its age.

But with every new codex, it does take a step back.

Our lack of anti-psychic abilities, or difficulties with breaking vehicles and the fast that most of our units cannot take dedicated transport (Tankbusta are actually extremely effective when put in a Battlewagon... but that requires 2 slot choice for 1 'unit'...) are all pretty big oversight that only get worse with every new entry.

That's the big picture tho.

If you want me to nitpick, I can probably write you 5 pages of change that could be had :P
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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby KamikazeNewf » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:40 am

I think the Ork codex is great. The Eldar are still playable and look at what the Dark Eldar have become... Why?... Phil Kelly.

Just putting it out there.

So no, I dont believe the Orks need an update.
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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby Smurfyk » Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:55 am

KamikazeNewf wrote:I think the Ork codex is great. The Eldar are still playable and look at what the Dark Eldar have become... Why?... Phil Kelly.

Just putting it out there.

So no, I dont believe the Orks need an update.


This. Phil Kelly needs to write the next Eldar codex too. I don't want a new codex right now and I don't think I need one, but if it's going to happen it had better be him.
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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby Tarkand » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:08 am

Here's what I'd do to the ork codex... :P

I think this help orks in a lot of key issues while also pushing less used/popular models, so effectively increasing sales and even forcing older players with huge armies to consider new purchases... it's mean, but we all know it's exactly what GW does.

General Wargear changes:

Mega Armor:
- Remove slow and purposeful from Mega Armor and add an 'impact' hit... on a charge, enemy units take as many unmodified STR hits as they are mega-armor in the group at init speed.

Gitfinda:
- Increase BS3 on top of current benefit. Make available as an upgrade to a lot more units (Warboss, Big Mek, Mek, possibly even weapon specialist in Boyz squad or nobz squad leader, etc - I hesitate to say loota, they really don't need it).

Burna:
- Allows more units (especially Nobz squad leader) to equip this. The flame template is nice, but really, this is the answer to the power weapon everybody wants.

Kustom Mega-Blasta:
- Make AP1, gives Melta. Keep gets hot! Make available on more vehicles and more units (possibly even on Nobz squad leader or boyz squad as an heavy weapon choice... this would go a long way toward making ork have a easier time breaking vehicles!).

Rework point costs:
- Essentially, it's sometime difficult to hit 1,500 or 2,000 or what not... you end up with 1498 or something, because of all our units that cost 6pts, or 3 pts upgrade... maybe try and round things up a big?

HQ:

Warboss:
- Add a lot more wargear option: Burna, Deffgun (Which would make him Relentless, that'd be cool), Tank Hammer, Tank Busta bomb, Stormboy pack, etc. If it isn't a named HQ only unique wargear or something that belong on a mek, he should be allowed to get it. This represents something else than a plain old boyz becoming big enough to be a warboss and would add some interesting combination (A burna Warboss would be means with 5-6 S6 power attack on the charge at ini 5...).
- If Warboss is on a bike, allow one bike squad to be taken as troops (this is on top of the nobz squad)
- Add deffkopta. If he is on a deffkopta, allow one deffkopta squad to be taken as troops (this is on top of the nobz squad).
- Allow an upgrade that gives Fearless to himself and any squad he joins.

Big Mek:
- Add deffkopta.
- He's extremely solid as is... all I'd like is somekind of compensation for the inevitable nerf that will come to cover save (and thus, the KFF) in V6...
- Possible boost to the shock attack gun (drop ap to 1, make 'bad results' less penalizing? Give better anti-tank abilities) so that he see more days in the sun compared to the ever present KFF mek.

Weirdboy:
- Increase base cost and increase WS to 5.
- 15 points upgrade that gives him a power weapon (Excess Waaagh energy allowing to be bad butt in CC)
- Change the '1' on the table to a multi hit firing attack (i.e. 36'', Assault 4, S7, Ap4 or something - remember orkish psychic power always hit). Drop Zzap's ap to 1.
- Weirdboy now rolls two dice on the power chart, picks the one he wants. On a double, he uses frazzle on himself. If he rolls (or choose) 1-2-3 while in CC, he gets +1 STR instead of a power weapon.
- 10 pts upgrade that gives a 5+ inv save (fluff wise, this could be waaagh power warpaint/forcefield/what not)
- Warphead: May re-roll his 2 dices (once) if he gets a double.
- Upgrade (expensive, in the 30pts or more range) that gives the Weirdboy a psychic hood equivalent power (cancel psychic power on a 4+) in a radius equal in inches to the number of model in the squad he's assigned too.

Reasoning: The boost to CC this gives the weirdboy make him a valid main HQ in many army as well as being a possibly extremely potent anti-psycher tool (in a 30 boyz squad, he can have a 31'' inch psychic hood). The double dices rolls will help mitigate his randomness and greatly increase the odd that you're getting a power that's actually good everytime.

Ghazkull Thraka:
- Make fearless
- Adjust cost

Wazzdakka:
- Lower cost, too expensive for what he does.

Old Zogworth:
- Aply Weirdboy change, possibly increase cost to compensate.

Grotsnik:
- Lower cost, as his rage rule is a much bigger drawback that GW seems to realize.

Snikkrot:
- Make Snikkrot an actual HQ character, increase cost, gives Warboss statline (+1T, +1 W, +1LD).
- Allow Kommando he's attached to choose which table edge they will infiltrate from (This remove the ambush rule and silly 'I'm bringing ghazkull with me!' non-sense).
- Debating allowing him to have a power weapon or what not, although keep in mind that now that he doesn't replace the nob in a kommando squad, this the squad will be able to have Snikkrot and a PK Nob.
- Allow one kommando squad to be taken as troop.

Zagstruk:
- Make Zagstruk an actual HQ character, increase cost (by a fair amount here), gives Warboss statline (+1S, +1T, +1I +1 W).
- Allow his legs to be used to kick and count as power weapons (not klaws) on turn when he doesn't charge... they still double his STR when he charges.
- Allow a squad of Stormboyz to be taken as troop.

Kaptin Badrukk:
- Make Badrukk into a fully fledged HQ with Warboss stats (+1S, +1T, +1). Increase price.
- Give a power weapon to represent something he stole off some guy... or like an agoniser (that DE power wep that always wound on 4+)... something nifty and unique, but still potent, would be awesome.
- Allow a squad of Flash Gitz to be taken as troop.
- Honestly, the models is just waaay to cool to not see more use.

New HQ:
- One or two HQ (named or not) would be nice... a painboss maybe? A named Burna boy (or Snaggrod himself even)?

Troop:

I actually really like our troop section... I would love for boyz to get their S3 bumped to 4, but even as I'm typing this, I realize it's madness :P. Still, some kind of help so that charges don't hurt so much would be nice... as right now, with all that jump pack and fast assault vehicles, getting charged is a real issue.

Boyz:
- Allow Skorcha as a 'heavy weapon choice'. I think Burna would be overkill - yes, the template is weaker, but throwing in 3 to 9 power attack in a big mob is just silly.
- A 1 pts price drop would be nice, but also seems like it could be over the top (it would boost GW sales tho). This would allow to have boyz heavy gunner with a Kustom-Mega Blast + Gitfinda become a mainstay as well (i.e. If the squad is cheaper, you can afford pricier upgrade).
- Allow boyz to carry a slugga (or extra CC wep), cc wep and shoota for a nominal price increase, so they can shoot assault 2 and get a 4A charge.

Madboyz or Wild Boyz:
- Some kind of extra unit with some odd/weird rules for the fluff fanatic or people who like the wackiness of orks would be nice here.

Trukk (Dedicated transport):
- I'd personally love to see the Big Squiggoth become a dedicated transport available to any unit that can take a trukk... of course, his transport capability would need to be increased to 12, but aside from that (and a possible price adjustement) he seems just fine to me.
- I'd love to see War Trakk added, as more sturdy, but slower option. A midway point between Trukk and Battlewagons. Somekind of Trakk upgrade kit for exising trukk model would be welcome.

Elite:

Meks:
- Entirely rework Mek so they are actually worth a damn and you actually want one with your burna or loota... Possibility of them having mini-KFF (5+ cover save to their unit only?) Give them access to bosspole? Something needs to be done, although I think some of the change in general wargear would help them.

Nobz:
- I really like nobz, they are a mainstay in my army. I'm really hoping they don't get hurt to much in V6 (which will most likely nerf wound allocation shenanigan) - so just make sure whatever change they get make them still good in V6.
- I think adding deffkopta maybe a bit to much... but hey, this could allow GW to sell us an entire new overpriced kits (plastic deffkopta nobz?) and how much more OP than thunderwolf cavalry could it really be.

Meganobz:
- Allow painboy, Cybork body, twin-linked big shoota, waaagh banner and for the love of god, bosspole. Release plastic kit to better help model the changes :)
- Remove Stikkbomz, it's just silly.

Flash Gitz:
- Move them to Elite with the rest of their nob brothers.
- See HQ for Badrukk changes.
- Allow a squad leader with bosspole and other typical boss option (power klaw and such - while still keeping his snazz gun)
- Release plastic models :P
- A price reduction may still be warranted, as they are a rather bad unit...

Burna Boyz:
- Lower cost (12 sound right).
- Allow 'eavy armor (which make them slightly more expensive than their old cost).
- Add dedicated transport option (trukk, bw, something new?)

Loota:
- Move to Heavy. See Heavy section for details.

Kommando:
- See HQ for Snikkrot change
- Add Stealth USR.
- Kommando who outflank now arrives on left or right (player's choice) on a 1, the left on a 2-3, the right on right 4-5 and any table edge on a 6.
- Allow nob to have bosspole.

Tankbusta:
- Lower cost (12 sound right).
- Allow 'eavy armor (which make them slightly more expensive than their old cost).
- Add tank hunter USR.
- Change gloryhog to not be so restrictive or even remove it altogether
- As a pricey upgrade, allow some Busta to trade their Rokkit for the new and improved Kustom-Mega Blasta.
- Add dedicated transport option (trukk, bw, something new?)

New units:
- Having 1 or 2 new units here would be fun and would be a smart way to increase GW sales. I personally think the Snakebite clans and the menagerie aspect of the orks is under exploited... maybe a huge pack of ravaging squigg lead by a runtherd... they could even have some kind of entropic strike like ability as they eat away at armor (If you tell me you don't want this in your army, you have no soul: http://www.irondogstudios.com/images/sq ... quigs.html)? Or some kind of bigger squig-like creature... squig ridders/hoppers? That may be better off in fast tho...

Fast:

Stormboyz:
- Lower cost (10 sound right)
- See HQ for Zagstruk changes. I think a lowered cost, a buffed up Zagstruk and the possibility of being scoring now will make Stormboyz a lot more common in most games.

Buggie:
- Lower cost. Buggies have more potential than most people think, they're just too fragile for the cost in the current game.

Bikers:
- Lower costs (20 seems more in line)
- Allow Nobz to have an upgrade that makes the squad fearless.

Deffkopta:
- Allow for a Nobz who can have a bosspole... that alone solves a lot of people's problem with the koptas. The nobz would also make much better use of the buzzsaw (s9 charge! yum!)
- Make the big bomm cheaper or beater so people actually want to use it.

New units:
- Since it's pretty much happening with every codex anyway, some kind of flyer/skimmer would be nice. One could be a fighta-bomma, while another could be somekind of assault transport (our answer to the Stormraven/Valkyrie/Necron Scythes)... they could even be built from the same box. It would sell like crazy.

Heavy Support:

Loota:
- Move them to Heavy.
- I don't think they need any other change. They are an extremely good unit as it is, but I think the many new ork anti-tank ability will make them loose in overall appeal anyway, so we may see less of them (which wouldn't be a bad thing... they're too popular atm imo).

Battlewagon:
- Just about perfect already. Maybe some change to the kilcannon to make it actually an interesting choice.

Flash Gitz:
- Move them to Elite with the rest of their nob brothers

Deffdread:
- Need some love, as he's litterally seen as the Killa Kan's poor cousin... when it's really supposed to be the other way around! Possibly give him AV13 frontal as well as some kind of Inv Save, putting more in line with the Mega-Dread from FW and giving him a fighting chance against all those insane dread coming out with every other codex!

Killa Kans:
- No real change needed.

Big Gunz:
- Artillery are just not very impressive in 40k as it is, and I'm out of idea on that one. It would be nice if the zap gun was actually better tho, maybe make it hit automatically like it did in older version of the codex.

Looted Wagon:
- Give more guns option. Maybe some crazy stuff (similar to shock attack gun).
- Allow to have a WarTrakk chasis (AV 12/11/10).
- Allow squadroning.
- Lower cost of boomgun upgrade.

New Units:
- Some new stuff would be nice. A huge squiggoth like creature, especially if it hasn't been added as an Elite choice or a Transport already. Either allow pack of Big Squiggoth or make a bigger squig-thing (not as big as a Gargantuan one of course)... basically, I think some kind of MC would be a fun addition to the ork codex.

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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby MFletch » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:35 am

So you want all units to be improved with no draw backs? Is that fair or a good idea?

No one has discussed here but they will be some new orky rule, like getting fearless or mobbing up that will come with a new codex. As the codex will be 6th edition we'll have to wait to know how best to do that.

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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby Dez » Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:41 am

I'd love for them to bring back Mobbing Up, and being able to Regroup to a vehicle. I miss my Speed Freaks!
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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby TyrantEatos » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:06 pm

Nobs with burnas, far to over powered. Only meks use the burnas so lets replace the nob squad leader with a mek or just have 1 mek for every 10 boyz?
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Re: Does any one think the orks need an update?

Postby Epic_Morph » Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:40 pm

I like the codex as it is for the most part, all the units in it are viable to use, and i think it's pretty well balanced.

The changes I would make would be:

-Leaders for all squads. (Meks in loota squads are useless)
-Flash Gitz, maybe a lil' cheaper? Also, a more customizable weapon, such as options to make them blast, flamer, melta etc. Obviously, there would be a max of mods that could be put on each weapon (Each should be allowed to be different)
-More Grotz :P Like in warhammer fantasy Orcs & Goblins, such as grot sniperz.

Im sure theres others, but are just my little ideas.


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