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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:22 am 
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Hey all

So after a long....loooong....LOOOOOONG time of not playing eldar, and even selling my eldar army off, i have decided after stints in fantasty (which i still love) and other 40k armies (none of which have sat with me) to come back to the craftworld, and begin the road to glory once again.

The problem? I am totally out of practice...I read through my own guide and managed to relearn things i had totally forgot about the game...and i mean seriously...10 years of eldar, a few years off and i lose everything...crazy...

So, since i have no models, essentially no experience anymore i have a fresh start with a fresh colour scheme and fresh new models...wooo! Question is...how to get to my first 1000 point hurdle. Over the years from my departure, new codices have been released and the game has changed...so i am concerned the 'old' beginner buy is not going to cut it anymore...Of course i refer to the classic 2 battalions, 1 farseer, 1 box of avengers and 1 warwalker. Comes to 1000 points on the nose, bar a few guardians and upgrades. The question is, does this still work at 1000 points? I look at it and think, there is very little anti tank here, no close combat support and the only hard hitting units are the avengers...war walkers whilst amazingly good, are very soft and wont last long to concentrated fire.

So, what i am asking the infinity circuit is, what can an old vet do to get back into the army he started a decade ago? How has this once mighty race changed over the years etc.

Thanks

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:47 am 
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I am currently thinking:

HQ

Doom Seer

80 points

Elites

10 Striking Scorpions
Scorpions Claw
Shadow Strike
Wave Serpent
TL Shuri Cannons

Troops

10 Dire Avengers
Blade Storm
Wave Serpent
TL Shuricannons

10 Dire Avengers
Blade Storm
Wave Serpent
TL Shuricannons

Heavy Support

Fire Prism

It is a bit low on numbers, but i have an outflanking wave serpent, which removes the risk of out flanking, gets a tank across the board garunteed, and have overall 4 hard to crack tanks dancing around. I could drop the scorpion serpent for a better seer, upgraded tanks etc. But i am losing a tank just to make other tanks marginally better...so im not 100% convinced.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:52 am 
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What's this? I get to give Azeebo advice? Aww yeah 8)

The old tried and tested method of starting Eldar actually still works quite well. The only thing I'd skip with it is the extra Dire Avengers box and instead grab some Fire Dragons and you should be solid.

Give the Serpents EML's for more AT (and versatility), same goes for the Guardians. Dual Scatter Lasers work just fine on War Walkers, but Shuriken Cannons suffice if you're short on points. If you feel you're too low on AT, swapping one Scatter Laser for an EML is a reasonable option. Some people are against having different weapons on your War Walkers, but I really see no logic behind it. If you're shooting at vehicles, fire the S8 shot and if it's infantry, fire the S4 blast. Against either you'll have 3-4 S6 shots to add to the damage as well.

Runes of Warding are much more important with Grey Knights hanging about now, but the best thing is that they stack because of the new FAQ, so at higher points, 2 Farseers with Warding will ruin any GK's day.

Azeebo wrote:
I am currently thinking:

HQ

Doom Seer

80 points

Elites

10 Striking Scorpions
Scorpions Claw
Shadow Strike
Wave Serpent
TL Shuri Cannons

Troops

10 Dire Avengers
Blade Storm
Wave Serpent
TL Shuricannons

10 Dire Avengers
Blade Storm
Wave Serpent
TL Shuricannons

Heavy Support

Fire Prism

It is a bit low on numbers, but i have an outflanking wave serpent, which removes the risk of out flanking, gets a tank across the board garunteed, and have overall 4 hard to crack tanks dancing around. I could drop the scorpion serpent for a better seer, upgraded tanks etc. But i am losing a tank just to make other tanks marginally better...so im not 100% convinced.

It looks OK, but really, I think the stuff I suggested will give you some more AT while keeping your AI pretty high.

I also really dislike Farseers with only one power...

So with what I suggested, it would basically be:
Farseer w/ Warding + 2 powers

5 Fire Dragons
Serpent w/ EML

10 DA w/ standard Bladestorm kit
Serpent w/ EML
10 Guardians w/ EML

2-3 War Walkers w/ Scatter Laser and EML each

That's a rough list, so add or subtract things as required to meet the points.

That's just my opinion though.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 6:06 am 
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Thanks for the tips.

I always hated super cheap farseers, but points were against me.

Interesting about the runes of warding...what do you mean they stack? I must have missed it in the FAQ (read it recently). Are you saying that if you perils...you take 2 wounds instead of 1 :shock: Or, i assume it is more likely your opponent rols 4D6 instead of 2D6...thats almost a certain fail...wow

EDIT: Checked FAQ...wow...that is a massive buff to eldar psychic defence...you are literally putting an iron wall of no psychic powers across the entire board. THAT is something i like...a lot...and it totally makes sense being the universes no.1 psykers and all

So, would this work better:

HQ

Farseer
Runes of Warding
Guide
Doom

Elites

6 Fire Dragons
Wave Sepent
EML

Troops

10 Dire Avengers
Blade Storm
Wave Sepent
EML

10 Dire Avengers
Blade Storm
Wave Sepent
EML

Heavy Support

Fire Prism

Better far seer, still packing 4 tanks, a lot more anti tank and still retaining a high level of anti infantry.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:16 am 
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This will probably sound really stupid, but I've looked through the FAQ and the only thing I can find about Runes Of Warding is how it works against Runes Of Witnessing, but I doesn't say about stacking. Could you possibly explain? :oops:

Anywho, the only thing I would suggest to your list is possibly removing a Fire Dragon to give Spirit Stones to a Serpent, and if you have 4pts left over maybe a second. It could possibly be helpful. Apart from that, welcome back! XD

Edit:
Either that or make room for Spirit Stones on your Farseer. Using Doom & Guide in the same turn can be invaluable!

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Last edited by blahman212 on Thu May 03, 2012 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:25 am 
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It really depends, I have found at smaller points sized games I run base squads of Dire Avengers(5 man no exarch) in Wave serpents with 2 shuriken cannons and use them as mobile weapons platforms.
The problem I come across is that if you are running full squads with Bladestorm there is a heavy reliance on them for your army's killing power, and once Dire Avengers get out of a transport usually only one thing happens.....they annihilate something with bladestorm then get destroyed.
Plus since 2/3 of all games are objective based you can't really afford to lose any squads of troops at this points size. I keep mine in my transports the whole game unless one gets popped then I run them to an objective.

My current list with which I haven't lost a single game is this

Eldrad Ulthran

5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent Spiritstones TL Cannons, Shuriken Cannon

5x Dire Avengers
Wave Serpent Spiritstones TL Cannons, Shuriken Cannon

5x Fire Dragons
Falcon Spiritstones Shuriken Cannon

5x Fire Dragons
Falcon Spiritstones Shuriken Cannon

Concept behind this is easy
A. 60-70% of armies you face will be Space Marine of some form and 2 Melta Squads makes short work of them
B. I always set up in cover or start in reserve
C. Objective based games always choose to go last (turn 5 is easy to drop troops on an objective and flat out to contest another)
D. Eldrad is a BEAST especially in smaller games(my last game was going horribly until he rolled in and annihilated a whole squad of Grey Knights by himself, he basically won that game for me single-handedly)

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 8:33 am 
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blahman212 wrote:
This will probably sound really stupid, but I've looked through the FAQ and the only thing I can find about Runes Of Warding is how it works against Runes Of Witnessing, but I doesn't say about stacking. Could you possibly explain? :oops:

Anywho, the only thing I would suggest to your list is possibly removing a Fire Dragon to give Spirit Stones to a Serpent, and if you have 4pts left over maybe a second. It could possibly be helpful. Apart from that, welcome back! XD

Edit:
Either that or make room for Spirit Stones on your Farseer. Using Doom & Guide in the same turn can be invaluable!


This is what they are referencing
Page 26 – Runes of Warding
Change the last sentence to “All enemy Psykers must
roll an extra dice when taking Psychic tests, suffering
Perils of the Warp on any roll of 12 or above.”

They are assuming because of the change in wording that each Runes of Warding adds an extra die, which makes sense, otherwise why bother changing the wording?

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:09 am 
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Lordpike wrote:
This is what they are referencing
Page 26 – Runes of Warding
Change the last sentence to “All enemy Psykers must
roll an extra dice when taking Psychic tests, suffering
Perils of the Warp on any roll of 12 or above.”

They are assuming because of the change in wording that each Runes of Warding adds an extra die, which makes sense, otherwise why bother changing the wording?


Oh right, I see now! Sorry I was being a bit thick.
But damn. Da-ey-mn. That is defiantly a good change.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 10:09 am 
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Lordpike wrote:
This is what they are referencing
Page 26 – Runes of Warding
Change the last sentence to “All enemy Psykers must
roll an extra dice when taking Psychic tests, suffering
Perils of the Warp on any roll of 12 or above.”

They are assuming because of the change in wording that each Runes of Warding adds an extra die, which makes sense, otherwise why bother changing the wording?


Oh right, I see now! Sorry I was being a bit thick.
But damn. Da-ey-mn. That is defiantly a good change.

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PostPosted: Thu May 03, 2012 5:02 pm 
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Azeebo wrote:
So, would this work better:

HQ

Farseer
Runes of Warding
Guide
Doom

Elites

6 Fire Dragons
Wave Sepent
EML

Troops

10 Dire Avengers
Blade Storm
Wave Sepent
EML

10 Dire Avengers
Blade Storm
Wave Sepent
EML

Heavy Support

Fire Prism

Better far seer, still packing 4 tanks, a lot more anti tank and still retaining a high level of anti infantry.

That looks pretty decent. I'm assuming the Farseer has Spirit Stones?

I do think 2 units of 10 Dire Avengers is a bit much. Perhaps you should drop them and their Serpent for Guardians and get another Fire Prism? It'd give you more fire power, just as many vehicles, a unit to camp your home objective and we all know that 2 Fire Prisms are better than one.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:04 am 
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I was thinking of getting some guardians, but i am trying to steer away from my old Ulthwe roots. If anyone remembers my stalwart defence of all things guardians...you know i love them to bits. Now though, new beginning, so a new concept. This time, im going more Beil Tann. If i were to go with something i would probably go with a 5man unit of rangers for camping objectives. Cheaper, better cover save but smaller numbers.

And yes, sorry i meant to add spirit stones to my seer. I am not a BIG fan of Guide Doom combo since it is total overkill, and fortune is by far the superior power in my opinion (it goes Doom > Fortune > Guide) considering fortune doubles the units survivability...even more so in cover, and makes wave serpents the bane of everything. I remember fondly of my falcon (after everythng else had died) taking an entire imperial guard tank firing line for 4 turns just laughing at the inability to do damage. We surely have some of the hardest tanks in the game...i love it.

Glad this list is better than the last, as for relying on blade storm...well...why else would you take dire avengers? Logically, you want them to do damage anti infantry style, so blade storming is a great way to pump out the hurt. An assault afterwards is optional, and to be honest i would rather have them in a more shenanagan position (like hiding under a wave serpent so the enemy gives me a cover save, cant assault me and my high AP weapons dont loose any effectiveness) My plan is to double team with my avengers. So basically fly up, unload 2 units of avengers completely castled in using waveserpents to stop return fire and counter charges. Unload 2 loads of blade storm on 1 unit, hop back in next turn and fly off. To get objectives, if there is time go for another run. In kill points, it is more of a jump out, shoot, jump in, move jump out, shoot jump in repeat.

I am thinking of putting my farseer in with the dragons. I know its a bit crazy, but i can guide them and doom any unit 24" away since i dont need line of sight (doom is not a shooting power after all...FAQ wooo). This means both my avengers can totally spam out with double storm, my dragons are going to triple in effectiveness, and everyone is happy. Heck, he even adds in a witch blade which is just awesome sauce.

That is my general plan...oh and the fire prism is probably going on anti tank duty for the most part but i am not sure. Quick question, what are peoples thoughts on the Night Spinner, i left just as it came out, so dont know how it has fared. Opinions?

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 2:46 am 
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Night Spinners are amazing, different use than a Fire Prism But every bit as good.
It limits the opposing Army's mobility, and due to our high mobility really lends to our strength.
Also a great way to get some free kills on heavily armored infantry units. (DANGEROUS terrain tests for ALL!!!) I have immobilized so many vehicles and killed so many guys due to this test it is rediculous(my favorite was the 2 Stormravens that were immobilized in the same game, lol)
Just make sure when you get your Fire Prism to magnetize it, then you can try it out for yourself.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:41 am 
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My problem with it, in theory of course, is that my 2 main opponents is a gunline style space wolf list, so movement is none existent, foot slogging, but still gunline based necrons...so again, movement is limited. Hordes are not really big in my area. Whilst i like the idea of the spinner, i dont think it will fit with my meta very well, and the versatility of the fire prism seems to fit my area a bit better...certainly going to give it a go...i mean its S6 (i think) and barrage, which is the BANE of scarab swarms...ignores their armour i tihnk, forces checks, instant kill not cover saves in most cases...

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 3:48 am 
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Plus being Barrage means you can hide it behind cover for higher survivability, Fire Prisms(while quite tough to take down) get focus fired a lot.

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PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2012 11:46 am 
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Azeebo wrote:
barrage, which is the BANE of scarab swarms...ignores their armour i think


the Night Spinner has no AP however is does have rending which tends to eat alive the poor people who choose to hide in cover....

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