What should I buy?

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What should I buy?

Postby something » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:09 pm

It have finally decided to start the greatest army in 40k history........Sisters of Battle!!! But seriously I am starting a Dark Eldar army, and am wondering what I should buy first. I currently own a squad of ten kabalite warriors, a squad of five hellions, and the codex. I will have roughly $200 to spend. I want to have at least one large squad of hellions being supported by some scourges with haywire blasters, some ravagers, some trueborn in venoms, and some wyches in raiders. So what should I get with to start my army?
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Re: What should I buy?

Postby mmdehart » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:11 pm

Pick up the battle force and an hq of your choosing

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Re: What should I buy?

Postby ShredRig » Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:20 pm

The battleforce is a good deal for the money compared to buying everything individually and chances are you'll be making use of everything inside.
Chances are the only thing you might not use is the reavers.. but you can always trade or sell em if you try them out and fill your fast attack with other things.
Hope you have as much fun with it as I do. :)
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Re: What should I buy?

Postby Zero » Mon Apr 16, 2012 6:19 pm

I've got to disagree with both the above posts. The first one really seems like a general statement, not a Dark Eldar specific one and I'm not even sure if mmdehart plays Dark Eldar or not. If you do, I apologise, but the lack of detail and never having seen you post in this section before lead me to my conclusion.

The reason I disagree is because you already have 10 Warriors. Unless you know that you're running 2 units of 10 Warriors, having 20 is pretty pointless, and then if you don't know if you'd use the Reavers, you're going to be wasting your money.

What I suggest you get next is an Haemonculus, two more boxes of Hellions, a Ravager and then either one Raider or two Venoms depending on whether you want to run your Warriors as full squads or MSU. The MSU is considered more competitive, but it's really down to what you personally prefer. I, for one, am a fan of the Raider Warriors as opposed to the Venom Warriors, but that is just me.

With that you'll want to convert one Hellion into Baron Sathonyx, give the Ravager 3 Dark Lances and convert the guys that hang off of the side of the Ravager (and Raider if you get it) into your Trueborn.

I assume you want Blasterborn (4 Trueborn in a Venom with 4 Blasters)? If so, you'll want to convert your Shredders into Blasters too. You can do this by cutting off the head of the Shredder and the head off the Blast Pistol, and gluing the Blast Pistol head onto the Shredder body.

You won't really want to add the Trueborn until around 1500 points, so don't worry if you can't make them all straight away, and just slowly build them up.

With the list of stuff I gave you, you should be able to run a fairly solid list at smaller points levels. Start the Haemonculus with the Hellions by the way.

You next purchase should at least be another Ravager. 2 of them are pretty much required.
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Re: What should I buy?

Postby ShredRig » Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:10 pm

He never said he didn't want to use warriors, although he did specify trueborn.
I figured if he'd want both, the extra warriors wouldn't hurt.
Especially if he plans on filling a raider with warriors instead of going MSU venoms.
We can't assume he'll use 20 warriors like you can't assume he'll use 10.
The real problem here is a lack of info, as we know what he wants to use but not what he doesn't.
Having the codex means you can make lists and post them here.
We'll give our critiques about em and help boost it's competitiveness if that's what you want.
You can even set limits like "I don't like units of X so please don't include them in changes" and so on, and we'll know what to look at changing.
(this is mainly for those who don't care as much about winning as using the units they like who might not be the more effective choices)
Try out some proxies and get to know what you want and you can make your own informed choices at that point if money is an issue.
If you plan on getting lots of everything and money isn't that big an issue, then it's alot simpler to get started earlier.
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Re: What should I buy?

Postby mmdehart » Mon Apr 16, 2012 8:50 pm

I played 4th edition DE never got around to 5th
Zero wrote:I've got to disagree with both the above posts. The first one really seems like a general statement, not a Dark Eldar specific one and I'm not even sure if mmdehart plays Dark Eldar or not. If you do, I apologise, but the lack of detail and never having seen you post in this section before lead me to my conclusion.

The reason I disagree is because you already have 10 Warriors. Unless you know that you're running 2 units of 10 Warriors, having 20 is pretty pointless, and then if you don't know if you'd use the Reavers, you're going to be wasting your money.

What I suggest you get next is an Haemonculus, two more boxes of Hellions, a Ravager and then either one Raider or two Venoms depending on whether you want to run your Warriors as full squads or MSU. The MSU is considered more competitive, but it's really down to what you personally prefer. I, for one, am a fan of the Raider Warriors as opposed to the Venom Warriors, but that is just me.

With that you'll want to convert one Hellion into Baron Sathonyx, give the Ravager 3 Dark Lances and convert the guys that hang off of the side of the Ravager (and Raider if you get it) into your Trueborn.

I assume you want Blasterborn (4 Trueborn in a Venom with 4 Blasters)? If so, you'll want to convert your Shredders into Blasters too. You can do this by cutting off the head of the Shredder and the head off the Blast Pistol, and gluing the Blast Pistol head onto the Shredder body.

You won't really want to add the Trueborn until around 1500 points, so don't worry if you can't make them all straight away, and just slowly build them up.

With the list of stuff I gave you, you should be able to run a fairly solid list at smaller points levels. Start the Haemonculus with the Hellions by the way.

You next purchase should at least be another Ravager. 2 of them are pretty much required.

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Re: What should I buy?

Postby Zero » Tue Apr 17, 2012 4:49 am

ShredRig wrote:He never said he didn't want to use warriors, although he did specify trueborn.
I figured if he'd want both, the extra warriors wouldn't hurt.
Especially if he plans on filling a raider with warriors instead of going MSU venoms.
We can't assume he'll use 20 warriors like you can't assume he'll use 10.
The real problem here is a lack of info, as we know what he wants to use but not what he doesn't.
Having the codex means you can make lists and post them here.
We'll give our critiques about em and help boost it's competitiveness if that's what you want.
You can even set limits like "I don't like units of X so please don't include them in changes" and so on, and we'll know what to look at changing.
(this is mainly for those who don't care as much about winning as using the units they like who might not be the more effective choices)
Try out some proxies and get to know what you want and you can make your own informed choices at that point if money is an issue.
If you plan on getting lots of everything and money isn't that big an issue, then it's alot simpler to get started earlier.

I never said he didn't want to use Warriors either, but he already has 10 and I said that chances are he probably won't use anymore. In a Hellion list, there are rarely points available for more than 10 Warriors as well as all of your other things, so unless he knows that he will use 20 Warriors, the Battleforce just isn't a worthwhile purchase. There's no point in buying a box of something thinking "I don't have a huge budget, but I might use these guys, so I'll buy them anyway." He's better off buying things that he's certain he'll use now.

Even for Trueborn, the extra Warriors aren't needed because he can easily convert Trueborn out of the guys on the Ravagers, and chances are he'll be using 2, if not 3, and probably at least one Raider, which provides more than enough guys for two units of Blasterborn. The only issue is actually getting the Blasters.

I should also say that, from experience, not having some Warriors in a Hellion list isn't exactly an ideal option.
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Re: What should I buy?

Postby something » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:42 pm

You guys asked for it, so here it is. Here is my 1000pt list.

Baron: ***

Haemonculus: **

4 trueborn w/ blasters: 108

Venom w/ additional splinter cannon: 65

10 wyches w/ Hekatrix with an agoniser, and 2 shardnets: 150

Raider w/ flickerfield: 70

13 hellions: 208

Ravager w/ flickerfield: 115

Ravager w/ flickerfield: 115

Total: 986

This is the list that I am working towards, so now that you see it, do your opinions change as to what I should buy. Also could you give me some advice on my list.
Last edited by something on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What should I buy?

Postby ShredRig » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:09 pm

Yeah the battleforce would be unwise with a goal like that.
You shouldn't post points costs of individual models (like you did with the haemy here). It's funny that you'd leave out the baron's points but not his cause you did think of it. :P
If you need to save points for something extra, don't worry about reducing your wych unit by one or two members even if you lose out on a wych weapon.
Even with the current 14 free points you have there's upgrades you could have gotten... we can do alot with 5/10 points.
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Re: What should I buy?

Postby ShredRig » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:13 pm

It'd an extremely rare occasion that my lists have 5 or more points left over. I don't even know if it'd be possible for that to happen to me.
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Re: What should I buy?

Postby Chief » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:19 pm

I would advise against Trueborn in a Hellion list.
Their role is already largely filled by the Hellions (providing those extra anti-tank shots) and the high cost of both units will take up a good chunk of points from your support units.

You can replace these with either the Scourges (to aid in supression), a pair of Venoms and your Warriors (to get more bodies on the field), or another Ravager (to add more punch) or some combination of the three (stripping points elsewhere of course).

A good place to find points might be your Wych squad. For a 1000 point game, seven of them should be enough to lock down anything your opponent can put down on the field, buying time for your Hellions to disengage their current target and help with clean-up (I'm assuming that this is what you want them to do, based on their equipment?).

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Re: What should I buy?

Postby Nappen » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:12 pm

Zero wrote:
What I suggest you get next is an Haemonculus, two more boxes of Hellions, a Ravager and then either one Raider or two Venoms depending on whether you want to run your Warriors as full squads or MSU. The MSU is considered more competitive, but it's really down to what you personally prefer. I, for one, am a fan of the Raider Warriors as opposed to the Venom Warriors, but that is just me.



Okay, my ignorance is showing. MSU?
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Re: What should I buy?

Postby Chief » Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:39 pm

Multiple Small Units

eg. taking two squads of 5 warriors vs taking one squad of 10

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Re: What should I buy?

Postby ShredRig » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:23 am

For some it's just a category, for others a philosophy!
It increases your kill points total and reduces how much damage it takes from your opponent to gain each individual KP, but might make the unit easier to hide or get cover for, and allows more targetting freedom and weapon options (2 X 5 warriors units allows for 2 blasters which you can't get in a single unit of 10 for example).
It makes your opponent waste shots if his shooting is massed in larger units and tries to focus on your smaller units.
Your units will start taking leadership tests earlier than in larger units too, and some see this as "they're toughness 3 anyways so they were going down soon anyways" or "I have less guys running off the board than if the squad was bigger".
Larger squads have their positive sides too, and a mix could be decent depending on your list.
Some units lend themselves better to a certain style than others.
MSU warriors are pretty sweet, three reavers with a heatlance... incubi are commonly use in smaller numbers with an archon (although some do stand by their larger incubi squad choices) but hellions in very small numbers arn't all that great for example.
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Re: What should I buy?

Postby Chief » Wed Apr 18, 2012 12:27 am

Generally speaking, large squads are your damage dealers, and small squads are your support units.


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