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 Post subject: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:36 am 
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So here's the 2000 point list I came up with for a footslogging Dark Eldar army:

HQ -
Haemonculus - Hexrifle - 65pts.
Haemonculus - Hexrifle - 65pts.
Haemonculus - Hexrifle - 65pts.

Elites -
3 Trueborn - 2 Dark Lances - 86pts.
9 Harlequins - 8 Harlequins' Kiss, Shadow Seer, Troupe Master w/ Power Weapon - 244pts.
9 Harlequins - 8 Harlequins' Kiss, Shadow Seer, Troupe Master w/ Power Weapon - 244pts.

Troops -
20 Kabalite Warriors - Blaster, 2 Dark Lances, Sybarite - 255pts.
20 Kabalite Warriors - Blaster, 2 Dark Lances, Sybarite - 255pts.
20 Kabalite Warriors - Blaster, 2 Dark Lances - 245pts.

Fast Attack -
Beastmasters - 3 Beastmasters, Venom Blade, 5 Khymerae, 4 Razorwing Flocks - 161pts.
Beastmasters - 3 Beastmasters, 5 Khymerae, 4 Razorwing Flocks - 156pts.
Beastmasters - 3 Beastmasters, 5 Khymerae, 4 Razorwing Flocks - 156pts.

TOTAL - 1997pts.

It's fairly spammy, and I'm sure there's room for improvement. One thing I thought about was maybe to lose a squad of Harlequins for another unit of Trueborn, seeing as the Beastmasters do have combat well covered. My problem with that is that the Harlequins are providing solid cover for the Beastmasters while being impossible to shoot at themselves from a distance. I'd also be using both the Beastmasters and the Harlequins to assault hit vehicles, but I'm wondering if another 2 Lances might be better for cracking transports.

The list as it is would basically focus on opening transports, with all of the combat units advancing as a kind of wall to prevent anything from slipping past and assaulting the Warriors at the back. They'd basically ignore enemy anti-tank, so a lot of Heavy Support vehicles shouldn't really be threats and I don't think this army will have as much trouble with things like Razorspam because the Lascannons can only do so much against a wall of infantry, and those armies really lack the infantry to bring the mass-firepower to bear to really do some serious damage to the whole army.

I think it's kind of solid considering the restrictions placed on it. It's obviously not quite as solid overall as a standard list, but seeing as it's rendering roughly 1/3 - 1/2 of the enemies army nearly useless, I think it kind of makes up for what it lacks in transports and AT firepower by not actually needing to worry about a large chunk of the enemy army.

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Last edited by Zero on Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:50 am 
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Seems pretty awesome actually. I'd try and fit in some Webway Portals honestly, and drop some Harlequins and Sybarites to get the points for that. Also, one Ravager with Grisly Trophies and Flickerfields coming in from Reserve can give you a bit of an extra punch and also give those big squads the extra Leadership they need to stick around when they start taking hits.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:57 am 
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Thanks!

I can see what you're getting at, and you're right, but with this list I'm trying to go for a full-on, like nothing anyone's run before style list. No transportation whatsoever, webway or otherwise, and nothing that floats (with the Beastmasters themselves being the exception).

I will, however, try a Webway version of this list after I try the proper footslooging one out.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Wouldn't harlies count as floating with their flip belts? :P
Besides that, cool beans.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:06 pm 
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ShredRig wrote:
Wouldn't harlies count as floating with their flip belts? :P

Nopes. They use them to jump about and do somersaults. They are anti-gravity, but not quite the way wings and skyboards are.

One thing I find odd is how Hellions count as landing at the end of their move. What do they do? Get off and use their hands to fire the Splinter Pods? Or grab their boards under their arm so they can run before charging on foot and carefully placing their boards on the ground so they can actually hold their glaives properly before remounting their boards after making a few attacks?

I just think they should've made it that Hellions don't take Dangerous Terrain tests at all.

/completely off-topic rant.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:07 am 
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Since I'm assuming you're putting the haemonculi with warrior units, why not try out giving them hexrifles to help give out more long range support. The units gonna be sitting around most of the time so why not take advantage of it.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:21 am 
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Hedonismbot wrote:
Since I'm assuming you're putting the haemonculi with warrior units, why not try out giving them hexrifles to help give out more long range support. The units gonna be sitting around most of the time so why not take advantage of it.


I agree with this actually. You could keep the Haemonculi separated from the group after he's given over the Pain Token, and your opponent would have to split up some fire to get that particular little kill point, and the Hex Rifle might get you a sweet IC kill if you're lucky, or at least pester a few squads.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:33 am 
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I could try that. What would you guys drop for them? Maybe two of the Blasters?

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:52 am 
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Zero wrote:
I could try that. What would you guys drop for them? Maybe two of the Blasters?


Honestly I'd start by dropping the Sybarites and the lone Venom Blade on the Beastmaster. Then, to get more points, cut from the Harlequin squads to try to even out.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:02 am 
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Yeah I like Dr. Bored's idea, those sybarites and the haemonculi are both ld 9, so they aren't needed at all if your chars are joining those warriors.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:08 am 
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Hedonismbot wrote:
Yeah I like Dr. Bored's idea, those sybarites and the haemonculi are both ld 9, so they aren't needed at all if your chars are joining those warriors.

Nope. The Haemonculi are actually only leadership 8, which is why I took the Sybarites. Only the Ancient is ld 9.

EDIT: Just realised that the Hexrifles are 5 points more than I thought they were, but if I lose 2 Harlequins (one from each squad) I could fit the Rifles in easily.

I'll edit it in now. There are also actually 9 Harlequins' Kisses on the units at the moment (will be 8 after change), that was just an error from when I was going for a 1500 list and realised it was nearly impossible to pull off.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:14 am 
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The more I look at this, the more I worry...

The Kabalite Warrior squads will be plenty survivable, especially if paired with the Haemonculi. In all honesty, you could probably still afford to drop the Sybarites simply because most saves that the Warriors will make are going to be +4 and +4 again. Unless your opponent focuses all their attention on them, they're not going to drop that many models, not enough to start taking leadership tests, and if they get into close combat, they're done anyway. Why waste the points?

The other squads, however, really need more wounds in them. The Trueborn are going to be singled out and taken down very quickly by your opponent's long-range anti-tank fire (since most of those shots will be useless elsewhere in the early game). They simply won't survive.

The Beastmasters also seem a little thin. Keep in mind that each Beastmaster model can take 5 Khymera and 2 Razorwings. In each of those squads, the third Beastmaster is all but useless. Scrap the third Beastmaster in favor of more Khymera. The Khymera have a better save and higher strength than a single Beastmaster.

You'll have to keep in mind that with such big units on the field and with no vehicles, your opponent *should* focus fire on the things that he *can* take out early. The Trueborn stand out first and foremost. A noob opponent will try and shoot the Warriors because they're a big intimidating squad, and will waste a lot of those shots to your cover/FNP saves. A smart opponent will target the Harlequins and Beastmasters. The Harlequins are as survivable as they're going to get with the Shadowseer, so your only other goal is to beef out those Beastmasters as much as possible.

In fact, I'd even try scrapping one of those squads in favor of maxing out the other two, getting as many Khymera and Razorwings in there as possible. I'd also try to pack in an Agoniser or Power Weapon into each squad, just to give them a tiny little extra punch. If you need more points, I'd strongly consider dropping the Trueborn, and throwing two Fusion Pistols into each Harlequin squad. The idea would be to pop transports with the combined firepower of the Harlies and then assault the juicy squad inside.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:31 am 
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I see what you mean about the Sybarites.

As for the Beastmasters though, the third Beastmaster is very much needed. I have 4 Razorwing Flocks, so the first Beastmaster is for the 5 Khymera, the 2nd is for 2 of the Razorwing Flocks and the third is for the other 2 Razorwing Flocks. By dropping the 3rd Beastmaster, I'd have to drop 2 of the Razorwing Flocks or the Khymera, and would not be able to add any more beasts. As they are, I can hit the Wound Allocation pretty hardcore. The only way to improve it as is without more Beastmasters is if I take the big beast thing instead of 2 Razorwing Flocks, which I did contemplate. Though I do agree that adding more Beasts (and Beastmasters) to the units would be nice.

So, if I drop the Sybarites and the Trueborn, I could get myself one more Beastmaster per squad and a Clawed Fiend each too for more wound allocation and survivability. I also have the points for a Venom Blade on one unit. The only other thing I could really do is then drop the Hexrifles, which would free up points for the Agonisers and either one Fusion Pistol or a Death Jester, but I don't think either of those would be super useful (I'd prefer to have 2 Fusion Pistols and I'd try run every turn, so the Death Jester is a touch wasted in my opinion, but could allow for a bit of softening up on certain units I'm not entirely comfortable with just assaulting).

The other option is to drop the Sybarites and Trueborn and instead take 2 Beastmasters and then a further 2 Razorwing Flocks per unit, which would leave me points for 2 Fusion Pistols or one Agoniser, but would reduce my wound-allocation abuse which could really help to keep the squad alive.

EDIT: I'll now be gone until late Friday night so I probably won't be replying until after that.

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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:09 pm 
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I just now read that for each Beastmaster you pick *one* type of beast... I had never noticed that before.

So in that case, yeah, try to get more Beastmasters and more beasties in there by dropping the Trueborn. You could still max out the other two squads by dropping the third and adding two Beastmasters to the other two, and filling out 5 more Khymera and 2 more Razorwings into each squad. That should give you 10 Khymera, 6 Razorwings, and 5 Beastmasters, which makes those two squads a bit more survivable.

Don't take the Death Jester, but I'd still recommend the Fusion Pistol. Once you're in range for the Fusion Pistol, you're in range to assault, so you shouldn't have too much trouble deciding whether to run or shoot.


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 Post subject: Re: Dark Footdar
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 3:14 pm 
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DrBored wrote:
I just now read that for each Beastmaster you pick *one* type of beast... I had never noticed that before.


I made the same mistake when I started out here, and I believe it's a common one.

I've searched far and wide for a conversion or alternate model (preferably GW) of razorwing flocks.
Been through alot of commonly visited forums like dakka and the dark city... search still continues though. :cry:
I've got my vampire counts dire wolf khmerae and will probably convert hellions into beastmasters but it's the only missing piece of the puzzle.
Some might say I'm too picky.. but I can't bring myself to use those weird bats or forgeworld rippers and stuff.

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