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 Post subject: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:02 am 
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I am a longtime player of Space Marines, Gray Knights, and Tyranids, but I can no longer resist the call of the warp. The Changer of Ways compels me serve him and his grand plot. However I am at a loss as to how to go about assembling my forces. I recognize that I wont be the most competitive opponent with a force like this, but that is not the reason I want to do this, I am in it for the modeling and painting mostly. There are so many conversion options available to Chaos, I just can't ignore how awesome a force dedicated to Tzeetch could be.

However, I would like to have an army that could be a contender in my local shop and with my friends, I want to make it in such a way that it keeps with the theme but at the same time has some punch and can be competitive if I play it right.

What I have so far is a 2k list that looks like this.

Chaos Terminator Sorcerer: w/ Mark of Tzeetch, combi-melta, familiar, power weapon, Warp Time, Bolt of Change, Doom Bolt (215 pts)

2x Chaos Space Marines: 10 models strong w/ Autocannon, Mark of Tzeetch, Aspiring Champion w/ Combi-melta, power weapon, bolt of change. Rhino w/ demonic possession, havoc launcher extra armor, dozer blade. (325 pts each)

2x Thousand Sons: 10 models strong, Aspiring Sorcerer w/ Bolt of Change. Rhino w/ Havoc Launcher, Extra Armor, Demonic Possession. (359 pts each)

Lesser Deamons: 9 models (150 pts)

2x Obliterators: 2 models each (150 pts each)

2000 Points Exactly.

Well there it is, does this work or is there better options to consider?
Thanks for your time!

Jynx

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:20 pm 
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Oh boy, are you asking for it. See the sticky thread on why most agree that T-sons are the most terrible build for a competitive Chaos army. Fluffy,yes. Competitve, no.
I've been arguing that they can be useful, but only limitedly so in another thread. I don't seem to be getting much support. Probably rightfully so...
Sorry.


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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:19 pm 
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Hey Jynx,

I'm really sorry to say, but I'm in full agreement with the pure suck of this choice. Khorne and Nurgle are about the only chance of a competitive game. I love the models and fluff though! It's best to just rethink this until the dex comes out!

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Tue Dec 27, 2011 11:48 pm 
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Get the 1k Sons models and use them as Plague Marines (it makes sense that someone without a body can't get hurt, right?) or regular CSM.

Don't give CSM heavy weapons.

You have no need for 3 powers on your sorcerer. It's just making him too expensive for little gain, drop the Familiar and one power.

Upgrades on Rhino's aren't very good. They make the rhino too expensive and don't achieve much. Also, you did read the rules for both Extra Armour and Daemonic Possession, didn't you? Daemonic Possession makes Extra Armour completely worthless, though you shouldn't take either anyway.

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:30 am 
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Thanks for the responses guys. :mrgreen: / please keep in mid tho I am not doing this to CRUSH my opponents, I just want them to give them a challenge, that is my objective here, I play for the fluff more then the glory. So with that in mind I have to build a castle out of crap here.

In most cases I am not one to proxy (I have to endure a Tyranid player who seems to think that warriors are a replacement for Hive Guard just because he can't seem to get any sense to buy the minis, its frustrating.) however I do agree with the concept of them having FNP because of the fact that the T-sons are basically walking shells...food for thought perhaps a house rule I could use.

Ok so what power for the Sorcerer would you keep? I'm thinking to keep him effective use Doombolt and Bolt of Change. See what you mean on the familiar..kk

Thanks for the tip on the Rhinos I didn't notice the comparison of Extra armor and Demonic Pos. Ill have to drop the armor and see about putting those points elsewhere.

As to the heavy weapons in the CSM squads I had the idea of using the fire points on the Rhinos with the Autocanons, since I can't use the SM trick of splitting the squads I could move the tanks up steadily while firing a nice big gun. But if not the Autocannons then what? another assault weapon? Plasma gun perhaps?

Ultimately as I see it, the whole reason for playing this game is for what interests you, and sadly Nurgle and Khorn have nothing for me, I have seen MANY armies built off of the two gods and I don't wanna copy. I can appreciate how good they are and I recognize that Tzeetch isn't the powerhouse he once was back in 3rd. I always liked the idea of the Tzeetch Marines and it seems to be an options few go with, prob for the suck factor I know but I don't think that will stop me. Also to consider, Tzeetch is not gonna go away when the next codex hits, so my models may get better. Ill go read the sticky on the T-sons tho.

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:44 am 
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SOOOO MUCH HATE! (I read the sticky post) ok I get it...the numbers speak loudly, still not a deterrent however. Perhaps not 2 grps of T-sons then, I have to include them for this to be a Tzeetch army, I just gotta. So what would be better choices (keeping in mind the theme here k.)

Off the top of my head

Havocs
Chosen
Termies?
Defiler

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:57 am 
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Jynxblack13 wrote:
please keep in mid tho I am not doing this to CRUSH my opponents, I just want them to give them a challenge

By playing the most effective Chaos list you can write you will achieve your goal. Unless you're versing Tau or a really, really bad player you'll never crush your opponents with a CSM army. What you'll be doing by writing a fluffy Tzeentch army is giving them a relatively easy win (assuming you're both of relatively equal skill).

Jynxblack13 wrote:
SOOOO MUCH HATE!

Welcome to Chaos. Hope you enjoy your stay.

Jynxblack13 wrote:
Havocs
Chosen
Termies?
Defiler

I'd take Chosen. I don't know why, but they just seem like the more fluffy option here.

Jynxblack13 wrote:
As to the heavy weapons in the CSM squads I had the idea of using the fire points on the Rhinos with the Autocanons, since I can't use the SM trick of splitting the squads I could move the tanks up steadily while firing a nice big gun. But if not the Autocannons then what? another assault weapon? Plasma gun perhaps?

Moving the rhino at all would prevent you from firing the Autocannon. Give your regular CSM a Melta, a Flamer and a Champion with Powerfist and combi-melta and you'll be set.

Jynxblack13 wrote:
Ok so what power for the Sorcerer would you keep? I'm thinking to keep him effective use Doombolt and Bolt of Change. See what you mean on the familiar..kk

I'd keep Doombolt and Warptime personally.

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Last edited by Zero on Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:32 am 
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Well thanks again Zero, been good to have a fresh opinion.

Chosen could be fun (that would fill the lack of CC in this list)

IDK about the Rhino/Hvy Weapon combo. The way it looks in the RB is that as long as the tank only moves 6" I can still fire a Main Weapon witch according to the rules on the classification an Autocannon falls in this category. Is there something else in there I missed? I have played it the way you said but I have encountered a few who think different.

Ill have to try both combos of powers on the Sorcerer and see what i like better.

Honeslty I am not the strongest player but I have seen current Chaos lists faceroll many armies, but then again this could be due to the lack of opponent skill.

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 10:34 am 
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More power to you. I say go for it, just be prepared to lose most games. I'd be happy to hear if you win some! Of course the haters will just chalk it up to your oppenent's lack of skill. :wink:
As for the Autocannon - since it is carried by a trooper it is not considered part of the tank's weaponry, therefore it will count as moving and cannot be shot. You'd have to remain stationary to fire it.
My choice would be outflanking chosen with some meltas and a flamer.


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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 11:00 am 
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Thanks, I guess Ill have to look at the rule book a bit closer. Anyhow, Ill try and report my findings if I come out on top at all, if not I think I will be having fun regardless. Ill post an updated army list here soon an see if there are any changes that might need to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:14 pm 
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Jynxblack13 wrote:
IDK about the Rhino/Hvy Weapon combo. The way it looks in the RB is that as long as the tank only moves 6" I can still fire a Main Weapon witch according to the rules on the classification an Autocannon falls in this category. Is there something else in there I missed? I have played it the way you said but I have encountered a few who think different.


Passengers do not count as a weapon on the vehicle or as part of the vehicle at all. When firing out of a fire point on a vehicle they fire as normal but measure range from the fire point. If the vehicle moves at all the passengers inside count as moving and you cannot fire a heavy weapon if you moved.

Jynxblack13 wrote:
but then again this could be due to the lack of opponent skill.


This is most likely the case.


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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 6:11 am 
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Ferrous-Wrex wrote:
Of course the haters will just chalk it up to your oppenent's lack of skill.
Zeruel13 wrote:
This is most likely the case.

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 8:09 am 
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Thanks for the rules clarification (I need to go hit my friend now for cheating! LOL)

Anyhow...if I were to keep the T-sons out of the list entirely and use more CSM, use Raptors and Chosen to fill CC roles in place of using zerkers (we all know Khorn and Tzeetch dont get along) what would be good load outs for them? I was thinking chosen with power weapons and plasma pistols, this might be just as expensive as the T-sons tho...ill work the list and post.

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 11:00 am 
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Ok new list ere we go

Chaos Sorcerer w/ Term Armor, Combi-melta, Personal Icon, Mark of Tzeetch, Bolt of Change and Warptime (205 pts)

Chaos Space Marines x3 (10 models) w/ Aspiring Champion (1 w/ Power Weapon, 2 w/ Power Fist) Plasma Pistol. Mark of Tzeetch, 2 Meltaguns,
Rhino w/ Demonic possession, dozer blades and havoc launcher. (1@335 2@345 pts)

Summoned deamons (9 models) (117pts)

Obliterators X2 (2 models each) (150 pts each)

Chosen CSM (10 models) Aspiring Champion, Flamer, 4 power weapons.
Rhino w/ Twin Bolter and Dozer Blades.
(sorry this entry is a little odd, dont have my codex with me so I am trying to figure it out with just Army Builder.)

Total is 1997 Points

Hows it look?

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 Post subject: Re: Tzeetch Army HELP!
PostPosted: Thu Dec 29, 2011 4:04 pm 
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I would try and get some tank-busting into your chosen so when they outflank you'll have something to pop tanks or monstrous creatures with. Should have an icon too to get you Daemons to them. I don't usually run a full squad of 10 either since they are basically a suicide squad. 10 may make them a little more durable though.
Dozer blades and Daemonic Possession are a waste of points, IMO. Could use the points on melta for your Chosen.


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