Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

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KamikazeNewf
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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby KamikazeNewf » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:35 am

darknightdrako wrote:
Zeruel13 wrote:How about this for a 2000 point Chaos list

200ish points to trick out an HQ

2 Obliterators
2 Obliterators
2 Obliterators

10 Chaos Marines with Power Fist Champion, Frag Grenades, Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 2 Melta Guns and Furious Charge in a Rhino
10 Chaos Marines with Power Fist Champion, Frag Grenades, Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 2 Melta Guns and Furious Charge in a Rhino
5 Chaos Marines with a Lascannon and Plasma Gun with Tank Hunters
5 Chaos Marines with a Lascannon and Plasma Gun with Tank Hunters

8 Havocs with 4 Autocannons and Tank Hunters
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannons
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannons
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannons

That was completely doable with Iron Warriors last codex.


By the Dark Gods this list is now possible thanks to the 6th ed rules :D. But the question is for how long.


He was using the old 3.5 CSM dex to build that list. Which it would of been possible to do, but with our current dex. No dice!
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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby Magnus01 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:46 am

KamikazeNewf wrote:
darknightdrako wrote:
Zeruel13 wrote:How about this for a 2000 point Chaos list

200ish points to trick out an HQ

2 Obliterators
2 Obliterators
2 Obliterators

10 Chaos Marines with Power Fist Champion, Frag Grenades, Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 2 Melta Guns and Furious Charge in a Rhino
10 Chaos Marines with Power Fist Champion, Frag Grenades, Bolt Pistols and Close Combat Weapons, 2 Melta Guns and Furious Charge in a Rhino
5 Chaos Marines with a Lascannon and Plasma Gun with Tank Hunters
5 Chaos Marines with a Lascannon and Plasma Gun with Tank Hunters

8 Havocs with 4 Autocannons and Tank Hunters
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannons
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannons
Predator with Autocannon and Lascannons

That was completely doable with Iron Warriors last codex.


By the Dark Gods this list is now possible thanks to the 6th ed rules :D. But the question is for how long.


He was using the old 3.5 CSM dex to build that list. Which it would of been possible to do, but with our current dex. No dice!


Thanks for clearing that up.
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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby darknightdrako » Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:51 pm

Magnus01 wrote:
darknightdrako wrote:Sorry Guys what I meant was you can field the same ammount of heavy support units now. :D


Is that with the FOC doubling over 2000pts? If so you need 2 HQ's.


Darn. Yeah your right another additional Primary Detachment. :( Thought it just double up the FOC.

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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby Magnus01 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:22 pm

darknightdrako wrote:
Magnus01 wrote:
darknightdrako wrote:Sorry Guys what I meant was you can field the same ammount of heavy support units now. :D


Is that with the FOC doubling over 2000pts? If so you need 2 HQ's.


Darn. Yeah your right another additional Primary Detachment. :( Thought it just double up the FOC.


Don't worry I originally thought that as well. but it's better because you can have 6 HQ's on the board max and minimum of two if you double the FOC when you are over 2000pts there's nothing bad about that.
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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby miniwars123 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:19 pm

so... do they gain anything from their slow and purposeful, now that you can move and shoot full range anyway?
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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby Magnus01 » Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:24 pm

miniwars123 wrote:so... do they gain anything from their slow and purposeful, now that you can move and shoot full range anyway?


No not really. If my memory serves me well I think we were talking about how rubic marines have gotten a nerf in 6th edition and one of these nerfs were the new rules for SNP. Please tell me other wise of we didn't.
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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby TheAurgelmir » Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:00 pm

Magnus01 wrote:
darknightdrako wrote:
Darn. Yeah your right another additional Primary Detachment. :( Thought it just double up the FOC.


Don't worry I originally thought that as well. but it's better because you can have 6 HQ's on the board max and minimum of two if you double the FOC when you are over 2000pts there's nothing bad about that.


Well you technically double the FOC, with all that entails. But the rule for the FOC is that you have to take an HQ and 2 Troops... so that doubles also :) Still if you are playing 2000+ points you can just toss in some cheap stuff if what you want is 6 Heavy support.
Much like if there is an Allied HQ you want you can just toss inn some cheap butt troops for fun.

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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby Magnus01 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 12:18 am

TheAurgelmir wrote:
Magnus01 wrote:
darknightdrako wrote:
Darn. Yeah your right another additional Primary Detachment. :( Thought it just double up the FOC.


Don't worry I originally thought that as well. but it's better because you can have 6 HQ's on the board max and minimum of two if you double the FOC when you are over 2000pts there's nothing bad about that.


Well you technically double the FOC, with all that entails. But the rule for the FOC is that you have to take an HQ and 2 Troops... so that doubles also :) Still if you are playing 2000+ points you can just toss in some cheap stuff if what you want is 6 Heavy support.
Much like if there is an Allied HQ you want you can just toss inn some cheap butt troops for fun.


Sorry but that was my point before. I may have not been clear about it or forgot to mention it. I was sort of saying that with the doubled FOC chart you could bring a massive amount of one thing however you have to bring the bare minimum (1 HQ and two troops but if you have a second FOC you have to bring 2 HQ and 4 troops ect). The example I gave was HQ's however the example you gave is heavy support. Again sorry if I didnt make it clear enough or forgot to mention it.
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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby TheAurgelmir » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:33 am

http://natfka.blogspot.no/2012/07/massive-csm-rumor-drop.html#more

It states there that the Rubic Marines gain the Soul Blaze (I think thats the name) USR, at the same price a today.

But is it really worth being 20+ points for something that can affect enemy units only once per unit and that has a 50% chance of going away?

If this is on top of AP3 Bolters and no SnP then I am all up for that, but if thati s all they are getting I think they are still going to be expensive.

So I invate you to this speculative debate:

Whith that rumor in mind, will the Rubic Marine be worth it?

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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby Zeruel13 » Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:50 am

If they stay the same in every way and get Soul Blaze in addition to all that then they will be decent. The make or break would be the Sorcerer. He's really the weak point of the unit now, just too many points for very little return for the squad. If he either gets much cheaper or more effective then they'll be on a usable unit. I still don't think they'll be fantastic but they will have a place especially with cover saves gone down, their AP3 and 4+ invulnerable both went up in use a bit.

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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby TheAurgelmir » Wed Jul 25, 2012 7:24 pm

Well most new codices don't charge for Psychic Powers do they? So atleast that is cheaper. Also I would think he has a Psy level of 1 (I mean he has a force sword, so how would he use it if not?)

That said he is what? 2-3 times more expensive than the regular Rubic? (Since I cant name the exact value can I? :P) Which is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much for a group leader, but make him decent at Duels together with access to all the pretty new spells then we can start discussing maybe 50 points? (Having a steady supply of Psychers never hurt :)

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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby Magnus01 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 4:14 am

TheAurgelmir wrote:http://natfka.blogspot.no/2012/07/massive-csm-rumor-drop.html#more

It states there that the Rubic Marines gain the Soul Blaze (I think thats the name) USR, at the same price a today.

But is it really worth being 20+ points for something that can affect enemy units only once per unit and that has a 50% chance of going away?

If this is on top of AP3 Bolters and no SnP then I am all up for that, but if thati s all they are getting I think they are still going to be expensive.

So I invate you to this speculative debate:

Whith that rumor in mind, will the Rubic Marine be worth it?


Two more editions the Rubic marines are getting (you may not have seen this (i dont know because it was not on the same article but on the same website) if you have someone else looking at this may not have). This is all rubic marine based there are other things which accompanied this info but are not related. First of all what you said is true however there are some other parts. First of all all rubic marines with the aspiring sorcerer in the squad are relentless. When the aspiring sorcerer dies or is not in the squad for some reason they are all SNP. Aright with the next thing I say I know everybody (including me) is going to complain and I don't know the full details on it (also take with salt). All Chaos Psykers (including aspiring sorcerer) have to roll which psykic power they get aka. It's random.
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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby TheAurgelmir » Sat Jul 28, 2012 12:49 pm

Well it will be the future for all Psychers that they will roll, as it is for Fantasy now.

But I am still wondering if they will still get AP3 (Which would be lovely against Cheesecrons)

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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby Magnus01 » Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:33 pm

TheAurgelmir wrote:Well it will be the future for all Psychers that they will roll, as it is for Fantasy now.

But I am still wondering if they will still get AP3 (Which would be lovely against Cheesecrons)


All past codex and rumors say Rubic marines will still get their AP3. Yes and it would be really effective against necrons and marines (the majority of them).
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Re: Why Thousand Sons are a Terrible Unit.

Postby TheAurgelmir » Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:42 am

Ah nice :D

If they stay "the same" with Soul Blaze on top of that they sound like they are rather fun to play :D


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