poda_tamas wrote: Accusing the AP3 bolters of being useless on account of cover saves is nothing more than being ignorant of the fact that cover saves can also be taken against plasma and melta guns.
Plasma Guns wound on 2's and because of their higher strength are capable of damaging light vehicles. AP2 is also significantly better than AP3 because, while it may not ignore cover, it does ignore FnP, which is extremely abundant these days. Meltaguns are for wrecking vehicles. The AP1 is to damage vehicles more.
poda_tamas wrote:By the criticisms posted, it seems that the typical response to dealing with enemy thousand sons is to sit in cover and take pot-shots, charge them down in melee or ignore them altogether.
For combat, the Thousand Sons are dead. Sure, the opponent has to get out of cover to charge them, but at this point cover doesn't matter, because you're in combat. As for drawing them out into the open, well, that's a pretty terrible use for a 200-odd minimum point squad. So many armies are capable of fielding some cheap hard hitting units, and in them destroying your 1k Sons, they'd have made that units points back. Also, the same could be said for when you then charge that unit with whatever it was you were planning on using that you were saying for the 1k Sons: That unit has just been drawn out and is now in the open, easily chargeable.
Sitting in cover and taking pot-shots at them probably won't work. I haven't read through the thread in a while, so I don't know who mentioned it, but it's not a great idea. Same goes for ignoring them.
But, you could gun them down. Not taking pot-shots, but legitimately applying force via rapid-fire or blast, possibly from multiple units, just as you would for any Marine unit.
poda_tamas wrote:Throw sacrificial units at them as well, and because you can no longer consolidate into melee, khorne berzerkers don't have so much going for them anymore.
I don't know what game you're playing, but that's an awful idea. If you throw a sacrificial unit at them, they're going to destroy that unit in your turn and, while they may not be able to consolidate into combat, they're still getting a free D6" movement in your
turn, which means that they are now even close to their target and
you just wasted a unit of your own.
poda_tamas wrote:Plague marines as being tougher? What's the point? The weaker weapons already have a hard enough time doing any sort of damage to marines, and the extra toughness doesn't really make a huge difference against the heavier weapons. The utility of a single plague marine could be easily matched by two line marines, so you might as well take the cheaper units because you'll simply have more of them.... and then S8 or better weapons insta-kill the marine anyway. The only thing you're effectively protecting yourself against are plasma guns.
What? Are you serious? Marines may be tough, but they're not invincible. The standard weapon wounds them on 4's and they've got their 3+ to make. With my Kabalite Warriors rapid-firing a unit of Marines, I more often than not kill nearly half the unit in one shooting phase. Plague Marines, on the other hand, are being wounded on 5+, which makes a HUGE difference. Furthermore, they have FnP, so even when they are wounded, they have twice the chance of actually surviving. When you say that you're protecting yourself against Plasma Guns I'm assuming you mean the Plague Marines own Plasma Gun, and not that of the enemy.
It's a well known fact that Plague Marines are the most competitive troops choice we have, and if you can't see the clear advantages they have over other Marines, I seriously question your ability to analyse any unit properly. I kind of stopped taking you so seriously after this to be honest.
poda_tamas wrote: Sure, it's not a fantastic advantage but it gives them something over most other units.
For the most expensive troops unit in our book, I expect a fantastic advantage.
poda_tamas wrote:and any attempt to bring balance to wh40k is sensless because it is a completely imbalanced game.
With the current rulebook, that's true, but with an update to the rules, bringing balance is an extremely real possibility. It wouldn't be complete, 100% balance, but it would be balanced enough that any imbalance is negligible.
poda_tamas wrote:it's no secret that codex CSM is now defunct and the worst off codex
Tau and Tyranids are worse off than we are. The typical 2 Lash Sorcerers, Plagues in Rhino's, Oblit spam list is still quite powerful.
If you want to play with them for fun, go for it, but the fact is that they suck. They're a terrible unit, a poor choice and wouldn't even be looked at twice for a competitive list. This thread was made to prevent people from asking why 1k Sons are so bad and so people trying to make competitive lists would stop using them. We were repeating ourselves and it was growing old.
1k Sons are so bad, they're barely above Spawn.