Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:42 pm Posts: 224 Location: Listening to WALK THE MOON while playing Shogun 2
my brother plays chaos marines and i'm trying to get him to use demons. are they any good?
(lesser)
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2008 11:46 am Posts: 1512 Location: England.
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Their not terrible, but they can be a bit of a gamble because their use is really determined by what turn they come at. They can be decent because you can tie squads up with them and they can take objectives.
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Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:42 pm Posts: 224 Location: Listening to WALK THE MOON while playing Shogun 2
thanks for the help, I got ten bloodletters to try out.
_________________ "Here they talked of revolution. Here it was they lit the flame. Here they sang about 'tomorrow' And tomorrow never came." Les Miserables
This may sound silly, but you talk about land raiders providing cover for rhinos, which makes sense. Would the reverse also be useful if you allowed the cheaper rhinos to provide cover for your expensive LR's? Especially when you're facing opponents with lance weapons? I wouldn't run them in front of it so they would get in the way if wrecked, but possibly right beside it or slightly ahead and beside the LR (a sort of reverse V). I assume they are large enough to provide 50% cover.
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:28 pm Posts: 9431 Location: Im on your Terra sitting on your Throne
Ferrous-Wrex wrote:
This may sound silly, but you talk about land raiders providing cover for rhinos, which makes sense. Would the reverse also be useful if you allowed the cheaper rhinos to provide cover for your expensive LR's? Especially when you're facing opponents with lance weapons? I wouldn't run them in front of it so they would get in the way if wrecked, but possibly right beside it or slightly ahead and beside the LR (a sort of reverse V). I assume they are large enough to provide 50% cover.
The cost of a unit is irrelevant. A rhino is easier to pop, thus is an easier kill point to obtain. Put them behind a land raider aka a much harder unit to kill and things start going your way ^_^
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:28 pm Posts: 9431 Location: Im on your Terra sitting on your Throne
Then you have even more incentive to cover your rhinos! Inan objective you want to get to an objective. Throwing your lightly armoured vehicles forward will result in death...probably before you reach your destination. A land raider covering their advance means they survive. Whats better, a land raider with 10 guys in side, or 4 rhinos with 40 guys inside?
I have to agree with Zeebz on this one. The current way of playing for CSM is using rhinos. Best to try and keep them covered. Say if youve got four rhinos and they get popped turn one your Marines arnt going to last to long.
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Me Personally I don't take lesser Demons, not greatly worth it.
Overall I think having a Greater Demon is much more worth it and use Sack a champion to pop him out. He works almost as well as a Demon Prince with slightly better stats but foot slogs 6in and only a 4+ invul save. Use the points on that instead and keep your personal normal standard in Plague/Khorne or standard marines with Chaos glory upgrade in Rhinos. Don't forget Oblits
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Greater Daemons are terrible. Aspiring Champions are a critical part of your squads and, as you yourself said, the Greater Daemon has to foot slog. On top of that, you have no idea when he's going to come in, which hurts you rather badly, as you cannot ensure that your squad is in a good possition to recieve him, to allow for maximum damage.
With nothing but a 4++, he will go down rather quickly, and can be avoided easily by any mechanized army. With the 160+ point price tag, he simply isn't worth it.
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 2184 Location: Planet of the Sorcerers
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Greater Daemons are terrible. Aspiring Champions are a critical part of your squads and, as you yourself said, the Greater Daemon has to foot slog. On top of that, you have no idea when he's going to come in, which hurts you rather badly, as you cannot ensure that your squad is in a good possition to recieve him, to allow for maximum damage.
With nothing but a 4++, he will go down rather quickly, and can be avoided easily by any mechanized army. With the 160+ point price tag, he simply isn't worth it.
This is definitely true. My Aspiring Champions are taken away by the greater Deamons which ups the cost of the Daemon overall. Also this might just be my bad luck but every time I summoned a daemon it was shot down by tanks from not being a independent character to buffer the blow by using squad members to take the hit when going to cc. When he dies (about one round of shooting from ig tanks) the squad is usually assaulted with no Aspiring Champions to fight back. Bye Bye 250+ points. I've done this 4 times in a row an I've played with a greater daemon 5 times. I've now given up on it and proxy it as a daemon prince.
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:46 pm Posts: 3850 Location: USA Depths(AKA Outside DC)
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for a 100 points the lessers can have much better uses than a greater, that and they don't sac an important part of a squad... and sorry the lessers really should be coming in near a rhino so theyll be a bit more due to an icon beong helpful. long story short, if used effectively and with some moderate thought they can be effective and worth their cost. if all else fails they can hold objectives
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:30 am Posts: 2184 Location: Planet of the Sorcerers
darkned1ight wrote:
for a 100 points the lessers can have much better uses than a greater, that and they don't sac an important part of a squad... and sorry the lessers really should be coming in near a rhino so theyll be a bit more due to an icon beong helpful. long story short, if used effectively and with some moderate thought they can be effective and worth their cost. if all else fails they can hold objectives
Mentioned in another thread the lesser daemons are also a great tarpit unit and they are also good for harrassing the enemy and distracting the enemy from other important things such as the objective and expensive units because when you have 10 - 20 daemons come running at you with swords your not going to turn a blind eye.
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