Speeding up the Game

Reach out and Crush someone! Monsterpocalypse has arrived. Discuss it here!
Locked
User avatar
Fireman Tim
Lives, breathes, and eats MiniWarGaming
Posts: 1666
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:12 am
Ribbons Earned: Group Build Badge #1Group Build Badge #2Group Build Badge #4Group Build Badge #5
Location: Fort Erie

Speeding up the Game

Post by Fireman Tim » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:02 pm

Any ideas on how to speed up or modify the game so that it does not take 2 hours?

One that we discussed today at the club is:

-Your Monster only has a number of hit points equal to its Alpha form. Once they are gone, it is dead. The Monster can still change into Hyper Form, but damage is still tracked on its Alpha form. This would work great for two montser games as one health tracker can track both monsters.

My ideas:

-A slight modification to the above rule would be upping the monsters hitpoints to 10 (as most have 5 hit points)

-Restricting your units to only 15 with no recycling.

-No recycling elite units

Any more thoughts?
"Kneel before Zod!"

User avatar
Fireman Tim
Lives, breathes, and eats MiniWarGaming
Posts: 1666
Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:12 am
Ribbons Earned: Group Build Badge #1Group Build Badge #2Group Build Badge #4Group Build Badge #5
Location: Fort Erie

Re: Speeding up the Game

Post by Fireman Tim » Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:33 pm

I have been reading on the PP forum about ways to speed up the game. Most people feel that imposing a time limit on the game is best (45 min to 1.5 hours), the winner being the one who scored the most damage to his opponents monster.

I got to say that I like this idea the best rather than screwing around with the game's mechanics.
"Kneel before Zod!"

User avatar
Machinehead
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 822
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 7:37 pm
Ribbons Earned: Won a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge
Location: Fonthill, ON

Re: Speeding up the Game

Post by Machinehead » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:07 am

i agree with the time limit, when we get tournament going it will be the only true way to keep things going at a decent pace.

other than that, the alpha form life total i like, the non-recycling units i dont. reason being if your stuff isnt on the board constantly it can really slow down the damage done to the monster (especially by my, who targets monsters regardless of nearby units)

User avatar
Eric.West
MiniWarGaming Zealot
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:54 am
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting Pledges
Location: Welland

Re: Speeding up the Game

Post by Eric.West » Sun Dec 21, 2008 11:55 am

I like the life idea, would defiantly give that a try, but no not the non-recycling units, we have to keep that, its a great game mechanic and I think alot of the game is centered around that. Its to epic monsters fighting it out with swarms of little monsters causing all their own chaos.

If we didn't recycle half way through the game it would be 1vs1 monster vs monster, not all too fun or complicated.
Successful trades : Greywolf[traded with him 3+ times], Lyzander17, Joe, Rhino, Fighting Gopher, More Dakka [Traded an entire army]

User avatar
Epic Duck Mike
The Duckiest!
Posts: 3974
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesHas Completed 25 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Headline EventTook part in a Painting Deathmatch Headline EventCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge EntryPlaced First with a 'Mini of the Month' EntryCompleted a 'Mini of the Month' Entry
Location: Welland, ON
Contact:

Re: Speeding up the Game

Post by Epic Duck Mike » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:05 am

I wonder if slowing down recycling would help at all? As in, when a Unit is destroyed, it can't come back on for say, 2 or 3 turns - or there's some kind of cost penalty. The problem is you'd need multiple Unit Pools at this point - one for each turn closer to being recharged they are.

We could playtest this on Friday, I suppose.

The Time Limit idea definitely works, but there's a few little caveats there - some Monsters simply have more Health than others - so one player can potentially take 14 damage, while the other can only take 10. It would be possible to win by a margin your opponent can't even reach in a down-to-the-wire game. Maybe scoring points for Cumulative Damage? Seems most of the low-HP Monsters regenerate Health in some way, so that might make up the difference.
Professional Warhammer and Miniature Painting - visit Epic Duck Studios!
I'm NOT currently accepting Commissions. Sorry!
Follow @_EpicDuck on Twitter.

Great artists don't paint because they're inspired; they're inspired because they paint.

User avatar
DavicusPrime
Lives, breathes, and eats MiniWarGaming
Posts: 1928
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:37 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 1 Terrain Group Build entryHas Completed 3 Terrain Group Build entriesHas Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Auburn, WA

Re: Speeding up the Game

Post by DavicusPrime » Mon Jan 05, 2009 12:11 pm

Regarding determining winners of short games:
At the top of page 30 in the rules, it gives an alternate scoring system for determining the winner of a truncated game. The basics of it are:

-First by kills - He who has killed the most forms (Alpha and Hyper) wins.

If that results in a tie...

-Then by damage - Add up the damage on each player's monsters. He who has the least combined damage wins.

If both of the above are even... it's a Draw.


The damage winning condition appears to be based on the damage levels at the point the game ends... So healing damage could become a game winning strategy for the last rounds of short games.

Regarding the proposed ideas to shorten the games...
I haven't played the game yet (Starters are still in the mail... :( ) but I've been reading up on the rules. So I have some untested theories and many questions...

But my conclusions so far are that none of the ideas I've seen posted nor that I can come up with (like increasing or decreasing action dice available) would speed up the game without throwing the game balance out of sorts. Some of them might even lengthen the game while screwing up the balance. :roll:

-DavicusPrime
favoredctan: "you wound me, sir."
demarcosg: "Roll armour save."
My PhotoBucket Page

User avatar
Epic Duck Mike
The Duckiest!
Posts: 3974
Joined: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:33 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesHas Completed 25 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Headline EventTook part in a Painting Deathmatch Headline EventCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge EntryPlaced First with a 'Mini of the Month' EntryCompleted a 'Mini of the Month' Entry
Location: Welland, ON
Contact:

Re: Speeding up the Game

Post by Epic Duck Mike » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:57 pm

In reality, a Unit turn is what makes the game slow in most regards - Monster turns go much faster since you're usually limited to just a couple actions. So really, any focus on making the game faster would have to alter how the units play.

Having less Units on the table would speed the game up (only having to choose between 3-5 units to move and attack with, versus say 10-15), but would limit their ability to combine attacks in a meaningful way.

If someone wouldn't mind playtesting this with me sometime soon, I'd like to try the following:
1 - Increase the cost to spawn all Units by 1 Action Die.
2 - When Combined Attacks are made, allow 1 extra Action Die for every 2 Units in the Attack. (aka, increase Brawl and Blast stats by 0.5 Dice)

It'd burn through the Action Dice quicker on a Unit Phase in both regards, while allowing the smaller numbers of units spawned to still have a good chance of doing damage in Combined Attacks.

This really wouldn't be a valid solution for Tournaments at all though - I'd hate to ask people who show up to abide by a strange set of house rules that they're unfamiliar with :)
Professional Warhammer and Miniature Painting - visit Epic Duck Studios!
I'm NOT currently accepting Commissions. Sorry!
Follow @_EpicDuck on Twitter.

Great artists don't paint because they're inspired; they're inspired because they paint.

User avatar
DavicusPrime
Lives, breathes, and eats MiniWarGaming
Posts: 1928
Joined: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:37 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 1 Terrain Group Build entryHas Completed 3 Terrain Group Build entriesHas Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Auburn, WA

Re: Speeding up the Game

Post by DavicusPrime » Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:35 pm

Mike: When I get my starters and a few boosters I'll see what comes out of it... I have one question though...

While a unit activation is typically longer time wise than a monster activation, would increasing A-Dice costs to unit attacks and to spawning actually shorten the game, lengthen the game or leave it about the same overall?

My hypothesis is that reducing the units' efficiency will provide less support for your monsters primarily in the form of earning P-Dice for your big critter. This might reduce the length of a unit activation... or not if it just adds more complexity to the "pondering my next move" action... but could also translate into more turns per game as it'll take longer to gain P-Dice and/or reduce the damage units can inflict on the opponent's critter.

Issue your fellow players lab coats and shop goggles and get to testing this at once!!! :mrgreen:

-DavicusPrime
favoredctan: "you wound me, sir."
demarcosg: "Roll armour save."
My PhotoBucket Page

User avatar
Eric.West
MiniWarGaming Zealot
Posts: 298
Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:54 am
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting Pledges
Location: Welland

Re: Speeding up the Game

Post by Eric.West » Sun Jan 11, 2009 9:55 am

To be honest I think the best and most effective way to shorten games at this point is to become more familiar with the rules and your units abilities. Every game I watch much time is spent looking up rules or abilities for units.

Once we've mastered our army and rules, if then the games are still taking too long we can consider other options, but I think at that point the carnage will develop fairly quickly.

I really enjoy the amount of units on the board, less units would make it almost impossible to hold buildings (you need 3 units) and still have enough to fight offensively. So I'm weary at cutting them down.

Anyways, Mike I hope to get a game in with you sometime soon, my Terrasaurs are coming along :twisted:
Successful trades : Greywolf[traded with him 3+ times], Lyzander17, Joe, Rhino, Fighting Gopher, More Dakka [Traded an entire army]

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest