Close Combat Weapons have AP • Close Combat Weapon = AP 6 • Chainswords = AP 5 • Power Weapons = AP 3 or AP 2 • Power Swords = AP 3 • Lightning Claws = AP 3 • Power Axe = +1 Str, AP 2, Initiative 1 • Frost Weapon = AP 3, Str +1 • Power Fists = AP 2 • Chain Fists = AP 1
Now the only time I will ever have a T-shirt save is against grot pistols and the occasional frag grenade.
Consolidation • No Changes
There goes my hopes of being able to consolidate into combat!
Challenges • Just like in Fantasy, Independent Characters can challenge other Independent Characters. • Characters can decline the challenge, but in doing so, cannot attack. • If accepted only the two ICs can fight each other. • Wounds inflicted count toward combat resolution as normal (possible overkill, like in Fantasy).
Be good to decline challenges for the Big Mek, but Warboss typically is Int 1...hopefully Toughness 5 will be enough.
Casualty Removal • From the front rank, just like shooting.
Really hoping this doesn't effect number of models that get to attack. This also slows down the game as I have to dig 7 orks out of a wall of swords or sychthing talons now instead of intelligently pulling them from the back as the mob pushes forward to keep fighting. It made cinematic sense and Fantasy still does it. Why frick with it now GW?
Random Charge Ranges • Charge moves are 2D6”, added together • Fleet and Jump Infantry may reroll a single D6 for the distance • Fleet no longer lets you charge after running, but reroll run distance
Waaaagh! now officially sucks...
Directed Attacks • All shooting attacks by Independent Characters can be directed at individual models in enemy units.
Yaaaay! Another way to pick off my Power Klaw Nobz!!! Goodie goodie!
Looking at all the changes, the only list that makes sense right now is battlewagon rush. Three wagons filled with shoota boyz and equiped with 4 big shootas or 4 rockits and a zzap gun to Snapfire as I rush up the board shooting all willy nilly at BS1. 12 Str 5 shots from the wagon, and 38 shots from the boyz...well toss in 2 more big shootas and a pistol...
Flyers seem to be good at least so tack 3 of those into the list.
Grab some Meganobz and put them in another battlewagon.
Probably run 2 Warbosses now because Big Mek KFF is only 5+ now due to how concealment for vehicles has been changed.
This or lots of bikes to take advantage of the "hammer of wrath" i.e. stomp attack for bikes, jump infantry, and monstrous creatures.
_________________ Necrons - 2000 orks - 2250
Only a true man dies fighting, I for one run away.
Yeah, the new rules seem to favor shooting armies, and I think tau will become a much better army after 6th, because rapid fire weapons can fire their full range after moving, so fire warriors can run away like babies and still fire 30".
In terms of Orks though, it looks like giving your warboss mega armor when your opponent has strong HQs is a must, or else he's wasted points. Also, the 2D6 charge range can be both good or bad for Orks, but it adds more randomness to 40k which is never good. I also heard you're going to be allowed to pre-measure, which makes Gitfindaz a useless upgrade (literally).
But, on the plus side, vehicles are getting nerfed which have always been a pain for Orks, and jump inf are int 10 when charging, making stormboyz very, VERY, dangerous.
_________________ Money can't buy happiness...but it can buy Warhammer, which is the same thing.
"I dig how in a setting where giant, muscled fungus men ride Mad Max cars and use their own teeth as currency, the concept of little engineering dudes with beards was considered a step too far down the aisle of silliness."
Wait until you have the rulebook in front of you? Things like overkill are said to be out and not in, ergo there is still disagreement.
Orks need to concentrate on what happens to boyz, where I think mass numbers will still work well. Which is the main thing.
Then you have failed to mention lootas which now will be awesome. Sheer weight of firepower means they will be able to glance to death tanks. Then there seems to be some BS1 shooting they can do if they move.
I think orks will be ok. They will remain just below the 5th edition codices[SoB and 'nids excluded], but what is new. They should surely be in line for a new codex at some point.
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2010 12:00 am Posts: 328 Location: Alliston, Ontario
Fights and Pile In happen at EACH initiative step. So you will still be piling the boys in at each Initiative Step instead of just at the end of a combat. That's damn hot!.
So what I gather from this is...
Orks charge, Space Marines pile in. Space Maines attack. Kill Orks. Orks pile in. Orks attack. Kill Space Marines. Pile in. Combat over.
So wait... I charge in with 30 Ork Boyz. Space Marines go first and kill the front 10 or so. I remove said 10 and then pile in during the next initiative phase (meaning before my Orks attack) thus pushing Orks forward to get in the combat, replacing the ones that died. So I am removing models from the front, replacing them with models in the back? What is the point!? Replacing models from the front with the ones in the back seems like an extra step that is not needed when I could just remove models from the back to save time.
Am I reading this wrong? Or does that just make no sense whatsoever.
_________________ Black Legion: 11,200+ Chaos Daemons: 3400+ Goffs Clan: 5600+ Ultramarines: 3400+ T'au: 1300+ Dark Angels: 1300+ Lizardmen: 2300+
Dese Orkz iz made fer fightin, an dats just wat deyle do Wun of dese dayz dese Orkz is gunna WAAGH!! all ova you!
it sounds good to me, pile in regular orks die, move forward, attack with orks, move forward nob with pk attacks, initiative order saves ur nob from being in front n being killed seeing how everything seems to be nearest front thing
Ok, I think you're over-reacting here, as everyone always says wait for the full rules, you're looking at them in a vacuum, using this editions logic, etc. Just wait until the rules come out and the net can finally digest them and see what's what.
I'll admit though from what i've seen so far it looks like Ork players are going to need some serious re adjustment to their usual tactics. So much so that I'm tempted to focus a lot more on my Battle Sisters during 6th as they seem to be getting a lot of nice little boosts with no real negatives.
One thing I really want to do is read the exact wording on the new shooting rules specifically template weapons. I'm worried the alleged can only kill models you can see/are in range will mean a less effective burna wagon. Placing the template over just two models and wiping out the entire squad might be gone. With the new overwatch or whatever it's called it's now worth jumping out of a wagon into cover to flame your enemies then dare you opponent to charge you.
I play Orks as well.....I only play Orks and to be honest I'm not worried. Sure it might suck that we may lose more units or not have as many attacks in CC but these are only rumours until you sit down with the new rule book and read it yourself.
Plus, AP6 CC weapons? Come on man, I almost always forget that I even get armour saves with my Orks....tells you the faith I have in rolling those 6's and trust me, failing those armour saves didn't make the game change all of a sudden. If it is such a big deal, you could always do a 'ard boyz squad which would give you a 4+ which would ignore the AP6 CC weapons.
As for "Orks are boned" it's just update scares. Sure tactics will change, lists will need to be redone, and army rosters may need updating but that's a curse and a blessing. It will add in a new level of complexity to the game, make it feel fresh again, and force you to try new things. Don't be afraid, embrace it and enjoy it. Sure we Orks may get boned in some departments but we have survived 5 editions so far and I'm sure we can survive even more.
_________________ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Army: Orks: 7,000 + points Currently Painting: Trukk Next Up: Dakka Jet
The only thing I'm rather worried about is the gamey and more importantly un warhammery this will lead to. I'll have to HIDE my nob. Orc (and most other factions) fluff just broke. No longer are there brave captains or brutal nobz leading their guys into combat. Now they'll hide behind grunts who take the hit while they cover. It won't look as epic, which is sad.
Combat wise, I wasn't aware of the pile in at iniative, but this sounds good in the sense that I won't have to worry so much about my nobz not reaching combat. But it will also be clunky, when models pile in it's a jumble of models and removing the front models sounds like a hassle, especially if you KNOW the pile in will result in the rear ones reaching combat.
Also read that fearless won't cause wounds anymore, I'd rather have that then a 6+ save.