Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

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Donteatrawhagis
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Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Donteatrawhagis » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:22 am

Question as above.

Space Marine back packs, servo skulls of the inquisition, skull shaped buckles on Orks. Are these merely coincidence or are these signs of an unholy allegiance?!? Might their secret mottos be skulls for the skull throne?

Let's not forget the Tyranids and Tau who also bleed blood. Blood for the blood god indeed.
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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Dez » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:24 am

You know when I was first getting into 40K I had a tough time telling SM from CSM because of all the skulls in the art.
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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Epic Duck Mike » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:29 am

I think maybe this is why I mostly collect Xenos - with a few exceptions, they don't use skulls for decoration, and even when they do, they use a lot less than the average Marine does.
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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Spacefrisian » Wed Dec 10, 2014 10:53 am

I thought GW just wanted to add skulls to as many places as possible.
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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Epic Duck Mike » Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:19 pm

"SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!"
"Yeah!"
"SKULLS FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"
"Yeah! Wait...what?"
"FOR THE GREATER SKULLS!"
"I don't think that's..."
"SKULLWAAAGH!"
"Stop it, that's..."
"BY THE SKULL OF SANGUINIUS!"
"Seriously, quit it."
"IRON WITHIN! IRON WITHSKULLS!"
"That's not even a word!"
"INTO THE FIRES OF BATTLE, UNTO THE ANVIL OF SKULLS"
"STOP SAYING SKULLS!"
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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Aegis » Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:30 pm

"Hmm... Not Grimdark enough..."

"Needs more Skulls"
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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Kovlovsky » Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:09 pm

They use skulls as it is the symbol of death. It's because the 40k universe is dark and hopeless and even humanity is fascist and reactionary. Also, it makes sense that Space Marines and Imperial Guards use frightening symbols since they want to look formidable and merciless to their enemies. Personnally, I love the fact that for once, the "good" side isn't too goody goody like it usually is like in Star Wars by example. I

'm tired of fictionnal universes where one side is white and the other is black. I like when there are vast grey areas. Like Tzeentch who both incarnates negative things (megalomania, ambition, the desire to dominate) and positive things (progress, knowledge, evolution, science, etc.).
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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Nadia » Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:14 pm

The skulls have many symbologies attached to them; the first and most obvious is death: It is a reflection of his own sacrifice, a bit like the cross for christian. Another leads could be the omnipotence of the Emperor, even after his death.

Like Ronin said, the Emperor demands sacrifice from all his servants, whether in the form of menial labour or actually giving up their lives in His holy crusades. Even after their death! For exemple, Servo-skulls; adepts who serve dutifully and well are honoured with having their skulls turned into servo-skulls post mortem so that they may continue to serve in death as the Emperor does.

I suppose the origin of the concept art would be the spanish christian religion during the reconquista and the expansion of the spanish Inquisition. Lots if even not all religious place (like cathedral, church and shrines) are decorated with skulls and bones. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capela_dos_Ossos

Skulls have also been found in a lot of war-theme, a good example would be on nazis trend - where game workshop took quite a bit of art http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Totenkopf. Another -exemple the german's Iron cross for the templar http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Cross.

Straying a bit, game workshop copy pasted a lot of concept, from The Terminator's robot army for necron, Aliens for Nids, orks... for orcs?.

In 40k, chaos army prefers spike over skulls, to the exception of khorne-theme unit, who REALLY likes skulls.
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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Nadia » Wed Dec 10, 2014 9:33 pm

Kovlovsky wrote: I love the fact that for once, the "good" side isn't too goody goody like it usually is like in Star Wars by example. I

'm tired of fictionnal universes where one side is white and the other is black. I like when there are vast grey areas. Like Tzeentch who both incarnates negative things (megalomania, ambition, the desire to dominate) and positive things (progress, knowledge, evolution, science, etc.).
On the other hand, newer movies and comic prefers the tormented heroes, like in Nolan's Batman, who shows only grey-black side. Or Cpt. America's lost of faith in US.

I miss the silly evildoers, and the retarded heroes, like in Adventure time.
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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Spacefrisian » Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:57 am

Only the Eldar (the Craftworld ones) are the good guys obviously. They actually try to keep themselves alive without trying to forcefully convert others to them. Although they dont care if other races perrish, but than again, we dont care about the wellbeing of the chickens we eat right?. And even they have a skull lord (with a scythe)

No the Tau arent good, they just have a different approach to the "turn or burn" concept, check Dawn of War endings as an example (no more human babies once they get the planet).
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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Nadia » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:05 pm

Spacefrisian wrote:Although they dont care if other races perrish, but than again, we dont care about the wellbeing of the chickens we eat right?. And even they have a skull lord (with a scythe)
Well, they are not too keen to help any cause (exept themselves), and they did used the Mon-keh as shield. On the other hand, Tau fight for the greater good, not only for their race.

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Re: Is ever army that incorporates Skulls actually Chaos?

Post by Kovlovsky » Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:21 pm

I see Tau greater good concept as just a nice packaging for classical imperialism. It's just another iteration of the civilizing mission that the western world used for justifying colonialism and some of the worst episodes of pillaging in the history of humanity. The Tau can play the good guys as they want, but in the end, if you don't accept to be integrated in their empire, they annex you by force. They might be seen as more benevolent than the Imperium and less racist, but they still are looking down to other peoples. And the recent fluff on their relationship with the etheral caste hints that they use unknown mind control techniques to get other castes in line. Compared to others, they might seem a lot better, but they don't really have entirely good intentions despite their propaganda to the contrary.

I still think that the Eldars are the less antagonistic race of 40k. They just want to be left alone and they left other peoples alone if they aren't menacing them or something. That and their lack of real imperialist ambitions, make them the better guys of 40k (except maybe one craftworld which is known for his aggressivity. I think it's Biel-tan).
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