Rebalancing Primarchs

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Koonitz
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Re: Rebalancing Primarchs

Post by Koonitz » Thu May 04, 2017 10:19 am

I heard a rumour that they're sticking with 7th. However, what I read from Forge World regarding 8th Ed (not specifically connected to 30k) was... non-committal beyond updating all 40k model rules. I'm not sure what to think, right now.

Personally, going with either option carries significant negatives, though I'm leaning towards a preference of "Update for 8th". However, my leaning carries significant bias.

If they stick with 7th, I'm fairly confident that it'll be rare in most metas to ever get a game in for 30k. ie: In my meta, almost no one has a 30k army, and very few can/want to invest in a Forge World based 30k army, so it'd likely be impossible to get a game, so my Thousand Sons would simply collect dust, unironically. I think it'll be fine for Miniwargaming, as they have multiple armies and multiple people interested in continuing to play it. It also allows people who don't like 8th to have an outlet for their 7th cravings, whether by picking up a Heresy army, or just playing their existing 40k army against Heresy armies in 7th Ed (especially for MWG, who have proven to have an interest in old school content, such as Fantasy). Though this doesn't solve the balance issues, so someone who is trying to cling to the power creep of Eldar will probably only get a couple games in before people just tell him to piss off.

Edit: Alternatively, sticking with 7th may be detrimental and damaging to the progress of 8th Edition's adoption. If people can readily get games of 7th Ed in, people will be more inclined to stick with the existing rule-set, even if it's sticking because of 30k. This may cause GW to encourage FW to move to 8th.

If they go with 8th, as mentioned, it may be a while before we see any serious updates. However, as Forge World is already committed to updating all 40k rules to 8th for a launch day release, it wouldn't be a big stretch to carry that over to 30k models, so getting a playable rule-set would be fairly easy. The lore would be completely unchanged, so those who have purchased the campaign books wouldn't lose out on any of the cool lore or stories. I suspect the missions would also play well for 8th, so only the individual model/unit rules would be unusable. It would also give them the perfect opportunity to retweak and balance all the Primarchs (to at least make a comment related to the original topic).

In addition, if they do update 30k for 8th, I suspect (read: hope) it will be a little better balanced for playing against 40k armies, so those who want to collect 30k, but may be holding back due to a lack of 30k meta (ie: myself), will still be able to play with their 30k armies. I really want to play Thousand Sons, but don't want to start yet another 40k army, so I'm putting my love of the Thousand Sons into building a 30k army.

As such, I'd prefer a move to 8th Ed.
Last edited by Koonitz on Thu May 04, 2017 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rebalancing Primarchs

Post by Xlv7 » Thu May 04, 2017 10:28 am

I agree. The Rumor mill I have heard is that the Heresy is stayin with 7th edition. It will be the more "advanced" game vs 40k becoming more simplified and accessible. I think the idea of having to completely rebalance the entire Heresy game would be a little to difficult to do quickly especially with Angelus on the way.

I figure this Heresy in 7th is a pretty balanced game system. No army at the moment is outright broken. Maybe Custodes are a little to hard but I have beaten them twice now so I am pretty meh on the over powered rumors. So why fix what really isn't broken. I think formations is what broke 7th edition 40k not the core rules of the game. Formations being absent in 30k along with most players having to pick units from a very similar pool lends itself to a game system that does not need to be changed. Shooting is still preferable to assault but assault legions like world eaters or night lords have amazing rules to balance the assault phase to make them effective once there. My money is that Heresy stays with 7th edition.

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Kovlovsky
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Re: Rebalancing Primarchs

Post by Kovlovsky » Thu May 04, 2017 11:02 am

Koonitz wrote:In my meta, almost no one has a 30k army, and very few can/want to invest in a Forge World based 30k army, so it'd likely be impossible to get a game, so my Thousand Sons would simply collect dust, unironically.
At least, it fits our motto! :P

Joke appart, both of you made very just considerations. My opinion on that matter is that they will release the remaining rules for what is still missing for the 7th edition (a few primarchs and special units for the legions that still don't have theirs) and stick to it for some time. I believe they will do that both because these players are waiting for a long time to get them and that might frustrate them to have to wait one or two years to get a book updating their rules. My take on their pledge to update all their 40k models for the new edition is that they exclusively mean it for pure 40k. I would be very surprise that they would suddenly be able to update all their 30k stuff that they took multiple years to write in just a few months. I think they will want to complete their work and then take some time to rethink their system for the new edition. There are so much stuff that can completely change in the 8th and would make their life harder when converting 30k to the 8th edition. By example, rewriting the Alpha Legion and the Raven Guard would be harder if the generic Infiltrate special rule disappear. They would have to write their own version of it. That's just an example. So, I think that converting 30k to the 8th edition will be a lot more difficult to convert to the 8th edition because it's a subgame with his own balance "system" if you will. It's a lot easier to change their much looser model basket for 40k that are taken piecemeal by players since these are single models that enter in a much wider selection of models that are balanced by another design team. For 30k, they work alone and must offer a rewarding experience to all players. There is no cutting corners here.

Then, they will eventually switch to 8th edition, but personally, I think it might take as much as one or two years before they start publishing an update for the new edition. I would be very surprised that they don't update to the new system eventually unless the 8th edition totally flops which would be an extremely surprising event. If the 8th edition is successful, I believe there will be a pressure coming from the player base to update for the considerations that Koonitz noted earlier. Otherwise, 30k might be seen as increasingly "archaic" by many players. That said, FW can pay itself the luxury to remain a niche game since before GW released plastic 30k stuff, only a small percentage of 40k players were into 30k and they were still financially successful. On another hand, they might progressively lose the increase in the player base that achieved since then if they remain in the 7th edition for too long. We shall see.
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