To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

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SonsofRuss
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by SonsofRuss » Tue Oct 02, 2012 7:16 pm

Rawrgyle wrote:buy x2 battleforces = a very, very solid foundation to a larger tau army. Despite if you do or do not end up using the kroot. You will still have the models around for giggles or filler.

After that its suits + suits + a sprinkle of broadsides + a hammerhead.
Completely agree with Rawrgyle. I have the skyrey, a battle force and some odds and ins and it all works out perfectly plus some sniper drones and full stuff just to mess around with. I'm saving up for the FW Broadsides with plasma cannons.
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miniwars123
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by miniwars123 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:51 pm

Sniperfex wrote:out flanking, into vunerable armour of vehicles and glancing them to death, 3 shots for 30 points same as a fire warrior (although they get 2 within 15 inches)

the +3 to cover saves.. that and crisis teams are too easy to negate their armour saves.

that improvement to cover always works even in the open +4... buildings ruins jungle etc 2+.. I'd rather choose that over a 4+ or 3+ armour save..

so says my guard with power armour cover
not to mention jet packs. Fire warriors don't get that.
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Rekatan
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by Rekatan » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:54 pm

miniwars123 wrote:
Sniperfex wrote:out flanking, into vunerable armour of vehicles and glancing them to death, 3 shots for 30 points same as a fire warrior (although they get 2 within 15 inches)

the +3 to cover saves.. that and crisis teams are too easy to negate their armour saves.

that improvement to cover always works even in the open +4... buildings ruins jungle etc 2+.. I'd rather choose that over a 4+ or 3+ armour save..

so says my guard with power armour cover
not to mention jet packs. Fire warriors don't get that.

There are a few problems with those statements. Here we go, again....

for 30 points you get a 1 wound model, with a 3+ armor, and Shrouded. A burst cannon, and the ability to infiltrate.

Here are the downsides:

30 points for 1 Stealthsuit vs. 30 points for 3 Fire Warriors:


3 Str 5 shots at 18" vs. 3 Str 5 shots at 30" (Along with double shots at 15" (3" less than a burst cannon)).

1 wound vs. 3 wounds (Even if the stealthsuit has a 3+ armor save, statistically the 3 Fire Warriors have more survivability).

Fire Warriors are scoring units (And have the option for a beastly transport, yes expensive, but still).

Stealthsuits take up an elite choice (which in 99% of cases should go to Crisis suits).

Yes, shrouded is awesome, yet to get a decent benefit of it, you must sit in cover. Having only an 18" threat range (Yes, you can move out of the terrain, shoot, then JSJ back into it, but after a few turns of that, your stealthsuits are going to be reduced in numbers to dangerous terrain rolls.) Making it easy for your opponent to either stand out of their threat range and ignore them completely, or assault them.

Putting on upgrades make these things even more ridiculously expensive.

The fusion blaster looks good on paper, but being 6" or 12"s away from a scary transport is never a good idea. As next turn you are going to get assaulted, and there goes your whole squad against virtually anything.

Stealthsuits look awesome on paper, but in practice seldom make their points back.

So, if you are looking for more Str 5 shoots, take more Fire Warriors.

If you are going for the infiltrate into side armor and glance it to death, take deathrains or suicide fusion blaster Crisis suits, or even more Broadsides. (They all do the job better, and for the most part, for the same point cost.)

Just some things to think about before your start putting in stealthsuits without doing any research on them.

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miniwars123
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by miniwars123 » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:14 pm

Rekatan wrote:
miniwars123 wrote:
Sniperfex wrote:out flanking, into vunerable armour of vehicles and glancing them to death, 3 shots for 30 points same as a fire warrior (although they get 2 within 15 inches)

the +3 to cover saves.. that and crisis teams are too easy to negate their armour saves.

that improvement to cover always works even in the open +4... buildings ruins jungle etc 2+.. I'd rather choose that over a 4+ or 3+ armour save..

so says my guard with power armour cover
not to mention jet packs. Fire warriors don't get that.

There are a few problems with those statements. Here we go, again....

for 30 points you get a 1 wound model, with a 3+ armor, and Shrouded and stealth. A burst cannon, and the ability to infiltrate.

Here are the downsides:

30 points for 1 Stealthsuit vs. 30 points for 3 Fire Warriors:


3 Str 5 shots at 18" vs. 3 Str 5 shots at 30" (Along with double shots at 15" (3" less than a burst cannon)) with the option of fusion blaster upgrades on the cheap.

1 wound vs. 3 wounds (Even if the stealthsuit has a 3+ armor save, statistically the 3 Fire Warriors have more survivability) shrouded, stealth, and jetpack mean that they will outlive firewarriors, plus if you get them a marker drone, it has a jetpack as well, so it would be much more worth it than for fire warriors, who don't get that benefit.

Fire Warriors are scoring units (And have the option for a beastly transport, yes expensive, but still) once again, stealth suits don't need transport - jetpacks.

Stealthsuits take up an elite choice (which in 99% of cases should go to Crisis suits (only based on the fact that you don't realize how good the other option is)).

Yes, shrouded is awesome, yet to get a decent benefit of it, you must sit in cover or get a 4+ save in the open. Having only an 18" threat range (Yes, you can move out of the terrain, shoot, then JSJ back into it, but after a few turns of that, your stealthsuits are going to be reduced in numbers to dangerous terrain rolls.) Making it easy for your opponent to either stand out of their threat range and ignore them completely, or assault them stealth suits are a harrasment unit, if the enemy is assaulting them, they are being led away from your large bodies of firewarriors. No, they aren't able to stand up on their own, but you can use them to annoy the opponent into redirecting resources to take them out, meaning you hammerheads, pathfinders, ect. stay alive longer.

Putting on upgrades make these things even more ridiculously expensive.

The fusion blaster looks good on paper, but being 6" or 12"s away from a scary transport is never a good idea. As next turn you are going to get assaulted, and there goes your whole squad against virtually anything unless you jump away, and get a 4+ save at the very least.

Stealthsuits look awesome on paper, but in practice seldom make their points back if you don't use them right.

So, if you are looking for more Str 5 shoots, take more Fire Warriors or stealthsuits.

If you are going for the infiltrate into side armor and glance it to death, take deathrains or suicide fusion blaster Crisis suits, or even more Broadsides. or stealthsuits(They all do the job better, and for the most part, for the same point cost.)

Just some things to think about before your start putting in stealthsuits without doing any research on them.
Just fixed a few thigs that were wrong with your reply ;) (yes, I know this was a few months ago, I just think it's important to clarify some things!)
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by SweetSorrow » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:36 pm

I just can't stand paying the money for the Crisis suits otherwise I would have nothing but Elites full of them. Instead of I just run a squad of 2 with then 2 squads of 5 stealth suits and the stealth suits never seem to let me down or not meet the task I assign them.
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by miniwars123 » Fri Dec 28, 2012 5:12 pm

darkned1ight wrote:I just can't stand paying the money for the Crisis suits otherwise I would have nothing but Elites full of them. Instead of I just run a squad of 2 with then 2 squads of 5 stealth suits and the stealth suits never seem to let me down or not meet the task I assign them.
I think the problem is no one ever really tries them en mas, they just field a squad of 3 from the battleforce, don't like it, and move on to crisis suits. When I get back into Tau, I want to have a list with two squads of 6 stealth suits. Slap some marker drones on 'em and you have 36 ~bs4 shots a turn, not to mention a single blacksun filter gives the whole unit night vision and they get +3 cover with JSJ, like I said before: a harassment unit there to draw attention away from your soft important units like pathfinders and firewarriors.
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by potato32 » Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:28 am

Stealth suits... okey, I can find a situationnal use for them. But they are pricy.
Stealth suits and marker drones... sorry, lost me at "marker " Srsly, if you want a ton of str 5 shots, you get more mileage with a pathfinder team and firewarriors.
Most units will be able to fire at your stealth team even after the jump. Likely, they will be the only thing to fire at. There are plenty of odd weapons here and there that will care little of a cover save. Or units.
I prefer relying on range than a save.

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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by gitsmasher » Sat Dec 29, 2012 2:43 pm

Knowing everything I know now, and I was starting tau, I would not buy the battle force.

Yes you get a complete army, but it would consist of 2 6 man fw squads, and even at lower point levels you will need more than that.

And for those of you who think kroot will be great *IF* tau gets an update have another thing coming. If kroot are made useful it will be because they received new weapons/gear, and remember what happened to GK players when they realized they all needed halberds and their old units didn't have them. So if Kroot are made useful expect to have to buy the new kits.
Also dont go overboard buying lots of models, as you may not like tau. tau aren't a army for everyone(there is a reason not very many people play them), I knew a guy who dumped $500 into BA's and it turned out he didnt like the army. I would start off by investing in just enough to cover a 500 pt game.

If it were me buying 500 pts of tau I would buy a crisis suit box, 2 FW boxes and a skyray kit. This way you have a full army of useful units.

i would do a list like this.

(HQ)
Air burst frag projector
Missile pod
Multi-tracker
HW blacksun filter
Stimulant injector
Warlord


(troops)
6 FW's no upgrades
6 FW's no upgrades
6 FW's no upgrades
6 FW's no upgrades

Or

12 FW's no upgrades
12 FW's no upgrades

Or

8 FW's
8 FW's
8 FW's

(Heavy support)

1 Hammerhead "railgun, burst cannons, disruption pod, Blacksun filter"

This list is exactly 500 points.

And it gives you the flexibility to test out different troop sizes.
Last edited by gitsmasher on Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by SweetSorrow » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:00 pm

All the Old Grey Knight metals kits all the GK were equipped with Halbereds..
However i do like the simple 500 pt list..
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by gitsmasher » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:26 pm

darkned1ight wrote:All the Old Grey Knight metals kits all the GK were equipped with Halbereds..
However i do like the simple 500 pt list..
Gah I thought they all had swords. :oops:
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by Sniperfex » Sat Dec 29, 2012 3:58 pm

6 Stealth Suits 180 Points
6 Drone Controllers - free
12 Gun Drones 240 Points
420 points total

have fun with this double it up and then you know what I used as an Infiltration/Disruption force in apocalypse
"Do you really want to waste your time
Wake up and live your life
I want to be your chemical ride"

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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by SweetSorrow » Sat Dec 29, 2012 6:06 pm

well in Apoc really take whatever you want as you have the points to take any unit.
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Well then, this is rather entertaining
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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by Rawrgyle » Sun Dec 30, 2012 4:52 pm

12 Gun drones = 120 points?

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Re: To Battleforce or not to Battleforce?

Post by miniwars123 » Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:59 pm

Rawrgyle wrote:12 Gun drones = 120 points?
yes, lol.
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