Help for a new Eldar Player

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Runesteel
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Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Runesteel » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:43 am

Hello everyone!

I recently started to get into tabletop part of a Warhammer 40k univerce and wanted to start a Iyanden Wraith-focus army with 2k point limit. Here I will drop the list in a hope for an advice on its optimisation and maybe some ideas to make it better:

- Vanguard Detachment - (895 points/44 PP)
HQ:
- Farseer (Singing Spear) - Warlord: Fate's Messenger - 105 points/6 PP
- Spiritseer x1 - Relic: Psythrome of Iyanden - 45 points/3 PP
Elites:
- x10 Wraithblades (Axes and Shields) - 225 points/20 PP (unsure, want to see how efficient it is, then decide for one large or two small units)
- x5 Wraithguard (D-scythes) - 225 points/11 PP
- x1 Bonesinger - 70 points/4 PP

- Spearhead Detachment - (508 points/29 PP)
HQ:
- Spiritseer x1 - 45 points/3 PP
Heavy Support:
- Wraithlord (Glaive and 2 Shuriken Cannon) - 133 points/8 PP
- Fire Prism (Shuriken Cannon) - 165 points/9 PP
- Fire Prism (Shuriken Cannon) - 165 points/9 PP

- Airwing Detachment - (595 points/29 PP)
Flyers:
- Hemlock Wraithfighter (Heavy D-scythes and Spirit Stones) - 210 points/10 PP
- Hemlock Wraithfighter (Heavy D-scythes and Spirit Stones) - 210 points/10 PP
- Crimson Hunter Exarch (2 Starcannons, Pulse Laser, Spirit Stones) - 175 points/9 PP

Total: 1998 points, 102 Power Points, 6 CP.

Is it wise to incorporate a Wraithknight there or to change any units/detachments loadout? For example isn't it better to use ghostswords for an extra offensive potential of Wraithblades or they should better remain more like a tank unit?
Last edited by Runesteel on Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.
40k: Craftworld Aeldari (Iyanden & Ulthwe), Harlequins.

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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Bojazz » Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:54 pm

It looks alright for the most part! There's really not a lot of freedom with iyanden lists, and you've hit most of the main points. There are a couple things to consider; although they are not necessary.

- You could run your wraithblades as one large unit since you'll still have 3 elites choices for your detachment. This will allow a spiritseer (or warlock) to cast quicken on all of them to get them into combat faster. Additionally you could use the supreme disdain stratagem to affect the entire unit (which is especially effective when the psytronome of iyanden has been used as well)
- speaking of casting quicken, you might consider including one warlock. The 1cp Seer Council stratagem will make casting those wc7 powers easier for both the warlock and farseer so long as they're near each other.
- you've probably already thought of this, but since you didn't include any info on how you intended to use these units, and also since you said you're just starting the tabletop hobby I figured I'd mention it anyway. Since you don't have a transport to deliver your short-ranged d-scythe wraithguard, you could use the 1cp we way strike stratagem to deliver them 9" away from the enemy and within 18" of one of your psykers. And then use quicken on them to get them into range to fire that turn.
- You haven't listed a warlord trait or a relic. the psytronome of iyanden remnant of glory would greatly benefit your list.
- if you need points somewhere, I feel like the shuriken cannons on your fire prisms could be dropped. You'll almost always want them as far away from your opponent as possible. They're fine defensively if you get caught out of place, but if you need points elsewhere they're probably the first things that you could cut.


I think the only large change I would consider would be using less flyers in favour of more ground forces since one of the largest difficulties for iyanden list is controlling objectives due to the way objectives are contested in 8th. But that's just personal preference.
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Runesteel
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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Runesteel » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:57 am

Bojazz wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 4:54 pm
It looks alright for the most part! There's really not a lot of freedom with iyanden lists, and you've hit most of the main points. There are a couple things to consider; although they are not necessary.

- You could run your wraithblades as one large unit since you'll still have 3 elites choices for your detachment. This will allow a spiritseer (or warlock) to cast quicken on all of them to get them into combat faster. Additionally you could use the supreme disdain stratagem to affect the entire unit (which is especially effective when the psytronome of iyanden has been used as well)
- speaking of casting quicken, you might consider including one warlock. The 1cp Seer Council stratagem will make casting those wc7 powers easier for both the warlock and farseer so long as they're near each other.
- you've probably already thought of this, but since you didn't include any info on how you intended to use these units, and also since you said you're just starting the tabletop hobby I figured I'd mention it anyway. Since you don't have a transport to deliver your short-ranged d-scythe wraithguard, you could use the 1cp we way strike stratagem to deliver them 9" away from the enemy and within 18" of one of your psykers. And then use quicken on them to get them into range to fire that turn.
- You haven't listed a warlord trait or a relic. the psytronome of iyanden remnant of glory would greatly benefit your list.
- if you need points somewhere, I feel like the shuriken cannons on your fire prisms could be dropped. You'll almost always want them as far away from your opponent as possible. They're fine defensively if you get caught out of place, but if you need points elsewhere they're probably the first things that you could cut.


I think the only large change I would consider would be using less flyers in favour of more ground forces since one of the largest difficulties for iyanden list is controlling objectives due to the way objectives are contested in 8th. But that's just personal preference.
Thanks for a feedback!

- Yeah, completely agree with a point of summing the Wraithblades, didn't pay attention to this one.
- The problem is, that this set up is topped on points and it's impossible (well, from my newbie perspective) to include warlocks here...
- Actually, I didn't thought about casting quicken on them... For a webway strike yeah, but not for a psy abilities...
- I also thought about the "Psythronome of Iyanden" for a Spiritseer and for a warlord trait I considered "Fate's messenger" for a Farseer, both from a Vanguard detachment.
- I can't see (again, from my perspective) any use for an extra 20 points which will be saved by this...

And I updated a post a bit based on your feedback!
40k: Craftworld Aeldari (Iyanden & Ulthwe), Harlequins.

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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Bojazz » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:53 am

Just a note regarding the new edits for the wraithblades - you can't actually choose to split a unit up during deployment. Once the game begins, you're stuck with the list you've made :(
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Runesteel
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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Runesteel » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:26 am

The game itself begins from a deployments phase, yes? So if I want to split them I should do so prior it?
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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Bojazz » Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:29 pm

There is no solid definition of when a game begins, but the general concensus is that you make a list, your opponent makes a list, you agree to play each other, and then the game has begun. If you were allowed to make changes to your list after seeing your opponent's list, than what would stop me from loading my army full of bright lances if I see that my opponent has brought a vehicle-heavy force? To take it a step further, what would be stopping me from re-writing my entire list to perfectly counter my opponent?

Unfortunately once you've written your list and agreed to play with it, you're stuck with that list unless your opponent allows you to change it. So choose carefully whether you'd rather have one large squad or two smaller squads!

Edit: Actually now that I think about it, in 7th edition space marines used to have a special rule called "Combat Squad" that allowed them to choose to split into multiple smaller units before or during the game. Without that special rule, units had to remain as they were written on the list. There's nothing in 8th edition that seems to indicate this has changed.
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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Koonitz » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:12 pm

Bojazz is right that there is no official concensus, however it is very poor form to make changes to your list upon seeing your opponents list. Unless, of course, both players agree to doing so. For instance, you could go "Man, I just brought a list that is going to wreck your day, now that I saw your list. I'm going to make some changes to make it a fairer fight." In addition, if you have a local group of friends who know and trust each other, do whatever you and your group are okay with. You could have super-competitive players who are always up for a challenge and may say "Here's my list. Build your best to break it." At which point, have at 'er.

The general concensus I am aware of is more a "tournament standard". At tournaments, you are required to retain the exact same list through the entire thing. Some tournaments ask you to submit your list prior to the tournament date (ie: A week before). Some just ask you to have a written/printed army list upon arrival. The most common is the latter. As such, it's generally accepted that, once you arrive and step into the FLGS to play your game (whether you are early, your opponent is present or not, doesn't matter), your list does not change. With absolute certainty, once you start rolling dice to determine things, such as "what mission you are playing", the game has begun, and any attempt to change your list after this point will be considered, at best, shady and manipulative, at worst, cheating.

These are, however, social/gentleman's agreements. You will have to determine what is okay with your own group.
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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Bojazz » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:10 pm

That was perfectly worded, Koontz, thank you. The generally accepted gaming store/tournament etiquette is that your list cannot change, but at the end of the day this is a friendly game and you and your friends can play by whatever rules you want!
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Runesteel
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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Runesteel » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:12 pm

Hm, I was unaware of this part... Thanks for an intro guys, then I guess I need to see how they perform as a one large unit and as a two separate squads and then decide with which option I should stick. Corrected the post respectfully, not to misdirect anyone.

Yes, if I recall correctly Space Marines currently have "Combat squads" ability (even a strategm for it).

And still a Wraithknight question... How can it be added and will it be efficient to exchange something in this list in favour of him?
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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Koonitz » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:27 am

Runesteel wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:12 pm
And still a Wraithknight question... How can it be added and will it be efficient to exchange something in this list in favour of him?
A Wraith Knight is a Lord of War. If you wish to remain battleforged, you will have to take a detachment that includes a Lord of War slot to include one. There are, however, no other restrictions on taking one outside points.

Another thing I'll add to append to my original post is alternative play styles. For instance, narrative or campaign play. In matched play, you may not know the mission you are playing, which means you have to be a little more balanced in your lists. But in the narrative campaign I ran, everyone knew their first mission was an ambush and who was the attacker and defender. Though everyone brought thematic lists, instead of gaming their lists, which made for some entertaining fights with some interesting narrative surprises.
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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Bojazz » Thu Nov 23, 2017 9:32 am

The easiest way to include the wraithknight is to take a super-heavy auxiliary detachment in your list. The detachment consists of a single lord of war and gives no additional command points.

As for whether or not to take it, that's totally up to you! They're quite a large points investment, but they're pretty effective on the field. I'd recommend taking the iyanden craftworld trait with the super-heavy detachment so that you don't need to worry about its stats deteriorating.
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Runesteel
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Re: Help for a new Eldar Player

Post by Runesteel » Fri Nov 24, 2017 12:26 am

Yep, the whole theme of this army is Iyanden, but I wanted to go full Iyanden mostly and later doing a Guardian Ulthwe detachment for a 1000p fights, as Guardians are an obvious choice for this due to their price. But this will be done later a bit and I suppose I will start a separate thread for this...

Still, thanks for the tips you gave me, I guess now I have somewhere to start!
40k: Craftworld Aeldari (Iyanden & Ulthwe), Harlequins.

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