Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others?

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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Hedonismbot » Sat Feb 14, 2015 11:48 am

Meh, there's always going to be haters no matter what you decide. Play the army the way the way you envision it.

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Shake it off!

Your tears are delicious!
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Bojazz » Sat Feb 14, 2015 12:57 pm

Ronin wrote:Rumor has it eldar holofields might be modified to be a ++5 instead of +1 to cover saves.
Nice. I"ll be taking holo fields on all my war walkers if that happens, so my 5++ can have a 5++. Is there also rumour of Tau getting this nerf, since their disruption pods are better versions of holo fields?
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Hedonismbot » Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:33 pm

Meh, at least their skimmers aren't going to wipe you off the board. Once players found out what broadsides and buffmander can do I almost never see hammerheads or skyrays, plus those transports take away points from more obnoxious choice like more riptides or suits.

You're right about them being annoying to kill with shooting though.
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Arnathos » Tue Feb 17, 2015 4:59 am

Some pretty good points there really. Both my IG and Chaos are geared towards taking out Tau and it infuriates our local Tau player to no end. I fondly remember the time he found out what horrible things Land Raiders with Dirge Casters can do to his army!

From my experience Missile sides and Sniper drones are about the only viable heavy support choices the Tau have. I have yet to see a Railhead kill anything significant and railgun boardsides are just sad with their S8(Note, I loooove my AV14 :D ).

Riptides can be a problem though, but I have found them to be hit and miss at times, especially if you take out the pathfinders, at BS3 and not ignoring cover their weapons are kind of lacklustre and once they get into close combat they just melt(unlike Wraithknights, but those die to sniper fire, or not at all when I'm running chaos).

I'm also not sure about fire warriors anymore these days, sure they have long range and S5 and a decent volume of fire, but Smart Missiles basically do the same but better. The farsight troop suits are decent though, the flamer/fusion blaster deepstriking ones are dangerous!

Overall I consider Eldar more of a threat than Tau, but this might be because our local Tau player likes to just castle up at the back of the board and not move much, I can't wait to try out my new deathstrikes!
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Hedonismbot » Tue Feb 17, 2015 10:17 am

Ronin wrote:The tau players here have tried all sorts of combinations including broadsides, buffmander, 2x skyray and 1x hammerhead, and each had their own advantages and shortcomings. We found the biggest issue with broadsides is they're immobile and lack relentless since they don't have jetpacks. I don't know things are set up on your table, but the tables we play on are relatively dense in which you can never see the entire board in one spot. If you want to cover multiple lanes of fire, you have to move or split your units up so this creates a situation where the broadsides can watch over one side of the table, but can be approached against from another angle. Another weakness is they're pretty expensive per model and they susceptible to high strength instant death which has been my main method of taking them out. All it takes is to lose 1 or 2 suits and the unit takes a huge loss in efficacy. The railgun variant is relatively high strength and low AP, but the issue is it's low in number of shots which has a high variance in either paying off or completely whiffing. The missileside build is the opposite, but its main hindrance is lack of range which a clever opponent could kite and outshoot. Imperial armies should be able to with missile sides because most of their strength 8 and higher weapons outrange the broadsides. I always found buffmander to have that "eggs in one basket" problem. The players here would stick him with a ton of markerlight drones, have them light up one target, and then overkill it, but leave the rest of the opposing army relatively untouched. Alternatively he gets stuck with missilesides, but then is bogged down by the broadsides' immobility and again, outranged.
I usually play with a pretty dense board too(I usually do the 6th ed method of random terrain with several los blocking pieces spread around the board) and the missile side unit I've found is still the best far and away. If deployed in a more central position, it will never have range issues, as 36 inches is more than enough in most cases, plus they will lock down an entire section of the table, as nobody will want to get into their sights. Rest of the army covers other areas where the foe is "funneled" into.

Unless there's a bunch of demo cannon shots going around, I've seen players stick the commander out front with Iridium armour, 4+ inv and stim injector so those things like lascannons and so on often do nothing and at worst, a single wound. Another thing about them being immobile is that they really aren't. They can still move and fire snapshots with re rolls, but with markerlights, can have it brought back up to full bs in no time. Imagine the look on someone's face when a unit they thought was out of range moves towards them and blasts them in the face. They don't have to know though.


I wouldn't discount their skimmers since there's been a number of cases where they did more damage than the rest of the army. Since I play mech'd marines, the unit that brings me the most concern is the skyray especially if my opponent has great and spread synergy with his markerlights. The advantage of the skyray is it's mobile and can move full distance, jink, hide behind line of sight, and still deliver a payload of missiles against a target that's been lit by markerlights. The ability for seeker missiles to ignore cover is huge since it invalidates jink and cover saves and go for the more vulnerable side armor. Plus it comes with its own networked markerlight and skyfire which further adds to the markerlight count. It's good against most monstrous creatures and FMC's too since it's strength 8 AP3 and most of them have a +3 save. Finally they're really cheap at 115 points, durable with 13/12/10 armor, and I found that taking at least 2 of them can be very cost effective. Once the payload is used up, they can keep hiding behind line of sight and rain smart missiles or keep tagging markerlights. The main weakness, however, is its heavy reliance on markerlights which you could shut down if you out range them.
Since you do seem to take 2+ fliers I can see why the skyray could be a problem. Otherwise, they're only hunter killer missiles that ignore cover and can hit planes. Even for my paper boats, never had much of an issue with that oddly enough. You're 100% right with the rest.
The railgun hammerhead I'm not convinced by, but I've gone against an opponent's who's been real lucky with them that he popped my two leman russ's without even blinking. However, I personally prefer the ion accelerator myself and another tau player would use it as backfield counter attack unit against deep strikes and drops. Of course, you could always take riptides, but I guess it helps in case you rather save your elite slots or you like throwing 3 tides in my face without resorting to forge world stuff.
Yeah, the hvy railgun is just, meh. Without markerlights to ignore cover, I've had games where 2 of them firing at me for a whole game have done nothing, literally"out shooting Tau is funny".
Sorry for the long wall of text. Just my two cents from both playing as and being on the receiving end of tau. ;)
Arnathos wrote:Some pretty good points there really. Both my IG and Chaos are geared towards taking out Tau and it infuriates our local Tau player to no end. I fondly remember the time he found out what horrible things Land Raiders with Dirge Casters can do to his army!

From my experience Missile sides and Sniper drones are about the only viable heavy support choices the Tau have. I have yet to see a Railhead kill anything significant and railgun boardsides are just sad with their S8(Note, I loooove my AV14 :D ).

Riptides can be a problem though, but I have found them to be hit and miss at times, especially if you take out the pathfinders, at BS3 and not ignoring cover their weapons are kind of lacklustre and once they get into close combat they just melt(unlike Wraithknights, but those die to sniper fire, or not at all when I'm running chaos).

I'm also not sure about fire warriors anymore these days, sure they have long range and S5 and a decent volume of fire, but Smart Missiles basically do the same but better. The farsight troop suits are decent though, the flamer/fusion blaster deepstriking ones are dangerous!

Overall I consider Eldar more of a threat than Tau, but this might be because our local Tau player likes to just castle up at the back of the board and not move much, I can't wait to try out my new deathstrikes!
Haven't seen anyone use deathstrikes for ages, should be fun.
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by DracoAvian » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:56 am

I think the real question is if Eldar can be competitive without wraithknights, wind riders, or wave serpents. I haven't experienced it. Well, that's a lie. I've seen Striking Scorpions assault out of a Deldar Raider. That was a privilege to witness.

I hardly see why people hate on the wave serpents. It may be due to the sheer amount of anti-armor my group brings to any fight, but we seem to see them as effective, but also costly. Mostly we think of them as relatively balanced. They just don't fulfill the party bus requirement. I really just want something to cart Dire Avengers around in. If the transport is as expensive as the unit... it's probably a land raider.

And I use Falcons all the time. But then again... my group allow any vehicle to squadron up in groups of 1-3.
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Bojazz » Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:17 pm

When used in moderation, I agree that they're fairly balanced. They're a little tougher to kill for some opponents, but they still fall to volume of fire fairly easily. My tau friend has taken to using gun drones off of his vehicles to circle around my serpents and glancing to death from the rear, and it has been annoyingly effective. It's when you start having entire armies of wave serpents that it gets to be excessively strong.

As for non-wraithknight, non-jetbike, non-wave serpent competetive eldar; Warlock councils are still a fairly strong deathball, especially in tournaments that consider each psyker to count as their own psychic unit so that each psyker can manifest powers individually (Instead of an entire squad of warlocks only being able to attempt conceal once as per RAW). Besides that, I've seen lists containing things like 3 fire prisms, multiple groups of war walkers, and webwaying wraith units do very well in regular play, though I have not witnessed them in any highly competitive setting so I can't comment on that. I've personally had pretty good success with Guardian Spam in regular play as well.

As for your Falcon use - High five! I'm also a fan of falcons since most of the tanks I shoot at are skimmers. The higher volume of fire from the falcon usually proves more effective than fire prisms for me :)
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