Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others?

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Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others?

Post by Lost Vyper » Thu Feb 05, 2015 2:04 am

I mean other 40k armies?

I was having a heated debate in one forum about a Forge World OP tank and suddenly it turned out to be " You play Eldar, you don´t have right to complain " -fest. I am SO sick and tired about hearing the "Wave Serpent is so OP!" -cries and such. C´mon, we don´t have five options like the Marines (Stormraven, Rhino, Razorback, Drop Pod, and a Land Raider), we have two, and one i haven´t seen in a batrep since the 5th edition (Falcon). I would LOVE to use something else to carry the troops, but unless you ally with the Dark Kin, there´s no solution to this. I use max two WS´s in a game (unless a huge game or been on a losing streak for a while :P ) and love to switch units around. If GW (or Forge World) gave us a choice and we DIDN´T use it, then maybe we are some d-bags, who just love their cheese...

Have you had experiences of this on forums OR in a gaming situation (if your list contains four WS´s, please don´t answer :D) ?

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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:40 am

Have you played against Eldar while not using Eldar yourself?
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Lost Vyper » Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:52 am

Nope.

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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:00 am

Then you wouldn't understand. Here's a challenge for you: play a 2,000 point game with Chaos Space Marines against a competent Eldar player whose list contains at least four Wave Serpents.
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Arnathos » Thu Feb 05, 2015 4:45 am

I've only played against 3 wave serpents in a tournament, it was easily the most fun game in the tournament and I failed to table him just because I was making dumb decisions. He also had 2 wraith knights and a whole bunch of D-scythe wraithguard to fill those wave serpents. He was a scholar and a gentleman all game.

I wasn't playing my chaos marines however, I am not sure they would have done equally well. I was playing my IG and I had a stormsword, which is the perfect counter to wave serpents because every time he used his shield he lost one. Also lasguns and veterans in assault murder wraithguard for some reason, 3+ save syndrome I guess.
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Lost Vyper » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:11 am

So any real answers for the question? Let´s not AGAIN go for the "Wave Serpent issue" as i said :

"we don´t have five options like the Marines (Stormraven, Rhino, Razorback, Drop Pod, and a Land Raider), we have two, and one i haven´t seen in a batrep since the 5th edition (Falcon). I would LOVE to use something else to carry the troops, but unless you ally with the Dark Kin, there´s no solution to this."

And i DO play Dark Eldar as secondary army and some Orks and CSM too. And i would love to go for the Grey Knights ranting spree, but that´s not the topic here. When i just want a change, i go for the Orks and get my a** handed to my 9/10 times, why? Because i seldom play them and forget so much of their strengths...BUT, i love the challenge, cos in our FLGC, there´s no mercy (like the Cobra Kai dojo...;) ) and if you when, it´s double the sweetness...

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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Feb 05, 2015 5:28 am

You realize that among not Space Marine armies (sans Chaos Marines), two transports is the norm, right?

Chaos gets two.
Daemons have zero.
Eldar have two.
Dark Eldar have two.
Tyranids have one.
Imperial Guard has two.
Sisters of Battle has three, if I'm not mistaken.
Orks have four, if you count the Looted Wagon and Morkanaut/Gorkanaut (I don't)
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Lost Vyper » Thu Feb 05, 2015 6:47 am

Yep, mostly face BA,GK,SW or IG...and my point was, that i would love to have at least another usable transport, not really taking anything away from anybody. Only transport i´m afraid to face, is the Necrons donut, takes care of your fliers AND WS´s with all that glancing...

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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:00 am

You don't need one, to be frankly honest. You have a mixed tank transport, and the best transport in the game by a mile. The Wave Serpent is damn near perfect. Here's a quick comparison:

Wave Serpent Pros:
Skimmer
Extremely durable with the right upgrades
Fast
Tank
Can act as a MBT when needed

Cons:
Much more expensive than basic transports of other races

Chaos Rhink Pros:
Cheap
Tank

Cons:
Low armor values
No real ranged weaponry
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Arnathos » Thu Feb 05, 2015 7:07 am

Sisters only have the rhino and immolator if you don't go for forgeworld units. But in my experience with IG (which admittedly not all encompassing) they have no right to complain about eldar being OP, as they have a ton of tools to deal with eldar and serpent shields can't even damage leman russes from the front.

Also IG technically has 3 transports plus 3 superheavy transports, 1 of which beats the waveserpent hands down for best transport in the game (40 man assault transport? Yes please! ).

Granted Chaos has terrible transports and no viable way to get their assault troops up the board as well as being too expensive to make a proper gunline, on the plus side they look really cool and I love playing them even though I have a loss rate close to 75%.
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Dez » Thu Feb 05, 2015 9:45 am

I think Necrons are going to be in the hot seat soon enough. The Night Scythe is good as ever, maybe the points were increased a bit too much (maybe by 10).

Ghost Arks are awesome. Armor 13 all the way around, ignore shaken, 2 Salvo 10 weapons plus open topped so embarked weapons can shoot. Plus it's a skimmer, and can resurrect Warriors.
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Hedonismbot » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:39 am

Not really. Like any 40k army, the current king of cheese will only draw in the haters until a new contender steps into the spotlight. Love you imperial knight spam! :wink:
Dez wrote:I think Necrons are going to be in the hot seat soon enough. The Night Scythe is good as ever, maybe the points were increased a bit too much (maybe by 10).
This I don't get. The old plane was severely undercosted for what it did. If anything, I feel that it still is too cheap considering the only downside is that it can't get extra hits from snapshots. Compared to what happened to the vendetta, you guys got off real light.
Ghost Arks are awesome. Armor 13 all the way around, ignore shaken, 2 Salvo 10 weapons plus open topped so embarked weapons can shoot. Plus it's a skimmer, and can resurrect Warriors.
Imo, It won't be the same for the crons. They had all the drama and nerd rage quota filled up at the beginning of 6th ed when the other books weren't updated to be able to handle fliers. Once that died down you barely ever heard anyone talk about cron air anymore.

Like with everything in this game, once the new cheese comes along, no one will care much about the old news.
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Arnathos » Thu Feb 05, 2015 10:52 am

I remember people giving me flak for using a helldrake and daemon prince, but nowadays no one really cares anymore, except for our local Tau player who considers everything but tacticals and guardsmen horribly overpowered.
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Re: Anyone else feel like Eldar gets bashed more than others

Post by Arnathos » Sat Feb 14, 2015 2:43 am

I don't know really, if you think about it, I use rhinos a ton because I have no other dedicated choice for most of my infantry and only one choice that takes up a heavy slot(and costs an arm and a leg but is still worth it despite the haters). Eldar are much in the same boat, they don't have a choice between dedicated transports and their "Land Raider" is terribad even compared to a chaos Land Raider. Foot slogging (mostly) T3 guys with bad saves that are still expensive isn't really an option in competitive play either.

I guess you could always spam wind riders but people will still complain.
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