Really hoping the New codex does not suck

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francisco
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by francisco » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:13 pm

Dont be Dez, there exactly the same except for worst for a couple reasons.

Genestealer same cost and got worst, paying 4pts a pair of scything talons its a waste, they give you wat? attacks at AP6? really 4pts for ap6? cmon gw.... the rending claws are already ap5 which is the only good thing on the genestealers
Yes 1 pair of weapons give you nothing, not even 1Attack, you need 2 pairs to get that.

Broodlord got more expensive and got less psychic powers adrenal gland´s cost is half a waste already since they have fleet already... so go figure....
The power the brood lord have is very situational, if I had the previous edition I would pay broodlord mainly to have the gaze to neutralize 1 model´s weapon in base contact with him, now we dont even have that.

The lictor?
now you dont need to start at deepstrike which is good.
again having scything talons for nothing, just the combination to have +1A and ap5 from rending claws.
even flesh hooks lost the rending....

If you intend running a vanguard list, the army is ok, but dont look for competitive, not even an inch close to that...
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by savoycabbage » Sat Jan 11, 2014 12:42 pm

I'm not sure they're as bad as you think.

From my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong), if you give you're genestealers scything talons they'd get +1 attack as they have 2 sets of CC weapons (rending claws and scything talons). And all the attacks would be at AP5 as per rending claws (as you don't have to roll separately for separate combat weapons)

I've not got the codex yet (getting it delivered on Monday), but I think that a more valid tactic with genestealers would be to use a massive cheap meat shield (20-40 x termagants and maybe a venomthrope both of which are cheaper now) to get them into combat. That way if anyone tries to shoot at them, they're getting a 3+ to 4+ save from shrouded and cover from the unit in front of them.

As I said, not got the codex yet so don't know what is viable yet...all will become clear!

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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by francisco » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:01 pm

Yes but on the genes you have 1 pair rending claws (despite you see 4 arms) which means they gain no extra attacks and are ap5 hits.
Getting the scything talons for 4pts will make em to have that extra attack cause you will get a second pair, also scything talons are ap6. So basically your paying 4pts that upgrade to get 2pts on 1A and 2pts on ap6(which the rending from the start make it better armour piercing)

and yes correct but since synapse is even more fundamental, your overall tactic will sink cause if the enemy blow off your synapse your beasts get dangerously more wild. Only good thing on the genes is that they dont have behaviours...
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by SkragaDaBoss » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:11 pm

I'm just glad I didn't go crazy and preorder everything.
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by TyrantEatos » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:13 pm

well in a few days I try to down load it, ebook or other if i can find it
till then I going to be using the 4th edition rules for fun
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by Captain-Shawn » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:16 pm

There are a good amount of things too like though in the codex, like Shadow in the Warp which is pretty devastating to any pysker out there, and the Hive Crone has good AA potential but will preform just as well against ground vehicles. Sad to see they took away a lot from the Swarmlord and gave him nothing in return, though with his guaranteed Warlord trait combined with Dominion, he could single handled blanket your army in synapse. The focus seemed to be heavily on the monsters, as they are the ones that got a lot of good stuff, I'm really digging the Carnifexs now. Living battering ram is awesome now, and makes Carifexs great monster vs monster units as well as all-around melee beasts. And they're cheaper, making them easier to fit in. At the same time, I was very sad when I saw the Raveners. Two sets of scything talons on a ridiculously over-costed downgrade of a warrior. And I noticed that as I was going through happened a lot, monsters were looking good, infantry left me un-impressed.

I need some more time to fully digest it, but I can see some power combinations and utilities, particularly in Bonesword Warriors. Now that the Bonesword can heal you, you could see some amazing returns out of a warrior unit that gets stuck in combat. With the bump in this WS, it's not unlikely for a group of warriors to cut down whole squads of Marines and the like. For this reason as well, Tyrant Guard are extremely worth it now, as even though they're your meat-shield for your Tyrant/Swarmlord, kit them out with Bonesword/Lash Whips and they're probably going to heal up any shooting they suffered. Weakened Tyrant Guard that die first round of combat could be a thing of the past, especially since they have the standard bodyguard rule. So long as you have the Tyrant/Swarmlord stay in front you can Look Out Sir! to whichever one you want, and control the damage.

When it comes to a competitive scene, I can see Monster Mash being the big theme. In such armies, just one Tervigon and some 'natural' Termagaunts could do the trick, as you'll be spawning for objective-sitters mostly, or for meat-shields so you wouldn't need a drastic number of them. Then the Tervigon still contributes to the rest of the monsters acting as a psyker and synapse control.
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by Sniperfex » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:21 pm

http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/view ... 03#p966803

oh yeah, forgot to mention... All our monsters are still the same toughness. So yes lasguns can still wound us ¬.¬

oh and yeah, our best combat units A.K.A. Genestealers, still do not have access to assault grenades

to make a decent Warrior unit

3 warriors, 3 flesh hooks, 3 Lash Whips & Boneswords, 165 points

and what? can get mowed down by a Heavy Bolter devastator squad
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by francisco » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:25 pm

the codex is an epic fail... we expected revamp and some upgrades to fight balanced games and also chance to fight vs meta gaming and they gave us even more trash than what we had previously.
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by Sniperfex » Sat Jan 11, 2014 1:51 pm

arguably, some stuff got better, Carnifex, Tyrannofex, Gants, they got better and cheaper

I agree, the Tyrant got no defence but it got what a 5 point reduction?

Tyrant guard are a little cheaper, but it's still expensive unit
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by rhothy » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:08 am

Yes guants got a few pts cheaper, but to take a tervigon as a troop choice you now need to take 30 termaguants, which is now 120 pts instead of what used to be 50 pts.

so Tervigon was 160 pts for 1 psychic power + 50 pts for 1 unit of 10 gaunts. So 170 pts.
+ 30 pts you could take 2 extra powers, which you could have used to roll up powers as needed/wanted. So for 200 pts you could roll on biomancy for a shot at some really good powers.

Now in the 6th ed codex, the tervigon is 195 pts, + 120 pts for the unit of 30 guants. So 315 pts you now get less rolls on the tyranid powers list. Except now the scything talons do not give rerolls on 1's and your now forced to spend an additional 115 pts to make a tervigon a troop choice and to be able to do so you now need an additional 20 gaunt models per tervigon troop choice that you want to field.

So to run 2 tervigons as troop choices you need to run 60 gaunts. Gone are the days of running three Tervigon troop choices because now your looking at needing 90 gaunts on the field, + an additional 60+ guants to make sure that you have enough gaunts to field the models that you spawn.

150 gaunts is alot of models!
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by IPlayThisGame » Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:57 am

rhothy wrote:Yes guants got a few pts cheaper, but to take a tervigon as a troop choice you now need to take 30 termaguants, which is now 120 pts instead of what used to be 50 pts.

so Tervigon was 160 pts for 1 psychic power + 50 pts for 1 unit of 10 gaunts. So 170 pts.
+ 30 pts you could take 2 extra powers, which you could have used to roll up powers as needed/wanted. So for 200 pts you could roll on biomancy for a shot at some really good powers.

Now in the 6th ed codex, the tervigon is 195 pts, + 120 pts for the unit of 30 guants. So 315 pts you now get less rolls on the tyranid powers list. Except now the scything talons do not give rerolls on 1's and your now forced to spend an additional 115 pts to make a tervigon a troop choice and to be able to do so you now need an additional 20 gaunt models per tervigon troop choice that you want to field.

So to run 2 tervigons as troop choices you need to run 60 gaunts. Gone are the days of running three Tervigon troop choices because now your looking at needing 90 gaunts on the field, + an additional 60+ guants to make sure that you have enough gaunts to field the models that you spawn.

150 gaunts is alot of models!
Well to be honest, Tervigon spam was a little broken and boring. I like the requirement for 30 gaunts to make them Troops. I don't like the massive downgrade in usability they got. To fix Tervigons, all it needed was the 30 gaunt stipulation. Instead, they take away the usefulness of Scything Talons, remove BRB powers, moving/charging gants after spawn, handing out upgrades to gants, and double range of backlash when it dies. Yet somehow this justified going up in point cost? GW, your lack of knowledge of your own game makes me sad

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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by TyrantEatos » Sun Jan 12, 2014 1:40 am

well now I have the codex
thank you 4chan.......I mean Games workshop.....yeah
so looking through it, I kinda like it its not the codex I hoped for but its not hmmmm Okay so its bad
But Im still going to play the nids and Im going to warrior spam bucause why not If I cant win tournament with it I going to have fun with it.
things I want 2 Flying Hive tyrants TL devours with brain leach worms old adversary regan
2 6 man/bug Warrior squads with LW/BS and death spitters
4 Stealer squads of 10 each
3 Harpies
Just to see the look on the other players face when I come running at him from every side
It might just work
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by francisco » Sun Jan 12, 2014 8:01 am

Ronin, try 3 tervigons with 3D6 gaunts a turn and you will likely to see spawming 20ish+ gaunts a turn more or so, isnt that reliable? then wait for the end of turn 3 you get around 60ish/80 gaunts in the field... and all this cause you want, you dont have to choose this which was something nice to have, an option...
They were fundamental for a all on foot army crossing the field to build up bodies and giving a chance for the swarm to trive while it advance...
Also cheap units to tie up 1 walker for example to save the tervigon rear from a potencial assault or complement the tervigon´s charge to tie up even more stuff.
Also remember the gaunts that got spawmed benefit from the tervigon´s toxin sacs and Adrenal glands the turn they just came out.
And now synapse backslash is 12" which basically its the tervigon´s synapse range unless he uses dominion or buy that expensive upgrade of 40pts to get just +6" synapse.

Tyranid oponents will love to shoot tervigon´s now more than never to get a chance to 3D6 hits on the nearby termagants since gaunts will stay within synapse range, there is no safeground anymore than rellying on others tyranids synapse to stay away from that living bomb...

Tyrant old adversary got worst... even hell shadow in the warp got worst, now its -3ld which if you roll low same as nothing, tzeen daemons got a +3 ld modifier, which mean now they test ld to 10 not 13 which same as nothing.
Before was 3D to psychic tests which would prove far more griveous to psykers around those bugs....
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Re: Really hoping the New codex does not suck

Post by roanmag » Sun Jan 12, 2014 9:55 am

i saw many sceptic comment about the ability to make list in order to win some tournament
i don't agree with that
there's possibility too make awfull list, as the tau or the eldar can make:

HQ
1 flying tyrant with 2 TLD
1 flying tyrant with 2 TLD
ELITE
1 venomthrope
1 venomthrope
TROUP
30 termagants
19 termagants
19 termagants
1 tervigon with the Norn crown
FAST ATTACK
1 hive crone
1 hive crone
1 hive crone
HEAVY SUPPORT
1 exocrine
1 exocrine
1 exocrine

total 1997

i don't think that any have tested this kind of army yet, and i' don't think that anyone could judge that is a weak army
there's surely some adjustements to do, but whinning without trying or tested is just annoying

PS: i don't try to make a fun army, or to put in it the unit i like, i just try to use some unit i think that are great

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