Initial frusturations, trying again

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Anima
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Initial frusturations, trying again

Post by Anima » Sun Sep 15, 2013 6:58 pm

I've been playing Eldar pretty much since I started playing 40k. I loved the old codex, and felt 100% comfortable with it. I loved it. I love the fluff, I love the models, I just plain love playing eldar.

Then the new codex hit, and I started to hate playing Eldar. I used to be aggressive with jet bikes/dire avengers and hit hard like most eldar players do, then dance away. I kind of felt like the changes of the new codex hurt that. Yes, yes, I know what you're thinking: "Battle Focus makes that even easier! What is your problem, noob?" But, I began to feel like the best thing to do was load up on five man dire avenger squads, hole up in wave serpents, and hang out until it was time to claim objectives.That's how the other eldar players in my local area began to play, and that what the majority of the internets said to do (my local area is fairly competitive). And that we should ally with Tau... Which I didn't want to do. I know... "Play what makes me happy, not what other people play." But I had a hard time making it work.

I think what really, really, rubbed me the wrong way were the changes to farseers. I knew the nerfs to the runes were coming, but I didn't expect them to be unusable. I hate rolling for psychic powers. If they're going to make us do that, then make all of the powers usable! Executioner is awful, and don't get me started on Death Mission! But what really bugged me was that we can't manifest our powers out of vehicles, meaning a farseer inside of a vehicle can't guide/doom a unit outside of it anymore. Really bugs me.

I don't want to come off as bellyaching. I'm not. I like most of the changes to the codex, outside of a few oversights. A lot of stuff got cooler like shining spears, swooping hawks, and the phoenix lords. I took a break and played my chaos for a while, but I miss playing eldar. I had a brainstorm this morning, and I think I'm going to chance working out my problem with the farseer. It's not anything new, but could I get a critique of my list, please?

Farseer
Firesaber, Mantle of the Laughing God, Jetbike

Autarch
Jetbike, Laser Lance, Banshee Mask

Dire Avengers x 10
Wave Serpent
Holofields, Spirit stones, Scatter laser

Dire Avengers x 10
Wave Serpent
Holofields, Spirit stones, Scatter laser

Windrider Jetbikes x 4
Shuriken Cannon

Fire Dragons x 5
Wave Serpent - 145
Holofields, Spirit stones, Scatter laser

Fire Prism
Holofields, Spirit Stones

War Walkers x 3
x 3 Scatter Lasers x3 Star Cannons

Crimson Hunter

Shining Spears x 5
Exarch, Star Lance, Hit & Run

Total - 1848

This keeps the farseer safe and able to cast powers all across the board. I still can't dump out dire avengers, and cast powers on them, unfortunately. But, I can harass enemy characters with the farseer (I almost want to get Death Mission! ...Almost), hit the spears with prescience, guide walkers or the fire prism...

I feel like I'm spending a lot of points on the Wave Serpents... Should I drop any thing?

Also considering swapping out the fire dragons for more dire avengers. I feel like I need more troops.

Thoughts? :D
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Re: Initial frusturations, trying again

Post by Concreteus » Sun Sep 15, 2013 8:12 pm

Hi Anima,

Let's look at the list first, it's pretty solid all around, not my personal type of set up but we are all different.
Anima wrote:Farseer
Firesaber, Mantle of the Laughing God, Jetbike
I see what your trying to do with this guy, being on his own and running around the battle field supporting you guys which is a solid choice however it also comes with a massive risk. If he get's into combat with a decent combat unit he will die, or a shot from a weapon that ignores cover say from a fire warrior team with maker lights and the weight of fire will more than likely kill this little fellow.

I'd personally consider increasing the unit of bikes to 6 strong 2 cannons and putting him in there. If you're rolling and trying to get fortune (and you do) you'd be surprised at how resilient this makes you farseer and will give him some nice added fire power, Sure if he gets into combat it's still going to hurt but with practice we can stay out of combat when we want most of the time.

As for the firesabre, I really don't like this weapon and I hate it even more on a Farseer. We already come with a witchblade which is a great weapon in my opinion and with access to a singing spear which I put on everything that can take one as it adds some anti tank to my list) there is really no need to take it on a Seer. If you insist on giving him a weapon from our special stuff I prefer the shard, at least then we have a chance of ID stuff, although as I've said the spear is my personal favourite.
Anima wrote:Autarch
Jetbike, Laser Lance, Banshee Mask
Now this is fine if you're putting him with the spears but I will give you an option to think about. If you put him in the list and use him to outflank with the spears then I believe (others will tell me if I'm incorrect I'm sure) you don't get his reserve modification rolls and when you're using reserves such as spears and fliers it's a really good bonus.

So how can you put him on the field? Well in this list they're are a couple of ways. Firstly you could give him the shard and put him in with your seer in the bike pack so he can help out in combat if you get stuck, which isn't a bad choice by far. Alternatively you could make the laughing god build which is the same as your current Seer and let him run around picking off what he likes while getting the bonus modifiers (it still runs the same risk as I've pointed out with the seer above). However this is completely optional. There isn't a huge problem with how you're using it I just think these 2 options give you more tactical flexibility.

Anima wrote:Dire Avengers x 10
Wave Serpent
Holofields, Spirit stones, Scatter laser
The set up is fine, you have everything done properly with this unit however once again I will give you an alternative. While I don't run DA or Guardians I can see the savings in Guardians for this type of unit (short range mass firepower). Your could try them out and see how you go, all I know is it's easier on your points to lose a unit of guardians rather then a unit of DA. If you're gun-hoe on running DA go for it they aren't a terrible unit at all, it's just that you can get the same job done for cheaper with guardians.
Anima wrote:Windrider Jetbikes x 4
Shuriken Cannon
I run a pure jet bike force so I always run mine in a set of 6 with 2 cannons and a lock with a singing spear. I believe this to be the best build as it gives you some nice fire power capable of cutting into pretty much anything an opponent can field. Some people will argue the lock isn't needed however the 3+coversave or possible 2+ armour save from Jink/protect is brilliant and if you happen to get fortune as well then it's a unit that's not going away quickly.
Anima wrote:Fire Dragons x 5
Wave Serpent - 145
Holofields, Spirit stones, Scatter laser
I like fire dragons (although they don't like me). Many people don't this Ed due to the minor points increase that they received however I think the 3+ save we got in return was well worth it. The only option he I will give you is on the serpent itself. As you unit inside is anti tank the serpent should be set up for anti infantry so it's one of the very few cases I'd consider putting a Shuriken cannon underneath for some added anti firepower.

Also considering your payload consider turbo boosting them into position for a 2nd turn jump out and shoot. With holofields, serpent shields and the turboboost option you'll have a nice 3+ cover say that is hard as hell to penetrate thanks to the shields. It will absorb a hell of a lot of incoming fire power on that turn but it's chances of survival are good and with all that fire power heading for your dragons, it's not hitting the rest of your force.
Anima wrote:Fire Prism
Holofields, Spirit Stones
Great the fire prism gives you some nice anti tank and some good tactical flexibility.
Anima wrote:War Walkers x 3
x 3 Scatter Lasers x3 Star Cannons
I like starcannons and all and if your meta has a lot of terminators then they are brilliant however another option to consider here is scatter/lance combo. This will give you a nice amount of anti tank (which I personally believe your current list could use a tiny bit more of). However this is not a must change just another option.
Anima wrote:Crimson Hunter
Great I love our fliers (yes that means both of them), let me just say though that the exarch upgrade I believe is brilliant after all hitting on 2+s is better than 3+s.
Anima wrote:Shining Spears x 5
Exarch, Star Lance, Hit & Run
Good set up and lets you get rid of those nasty things hiding around the board, no problems for me here.

Final Thoughts

Now you don't have to take anything that I've suggested however I have given you some things to consider that will be give you some more tactical options. I run an all-comers list as I don't generally know what I'm up against and so I have given my opinion to match what I usually do.

You can save points here and there if you really want to and improve units if you want to as I've pointed out however there isn't anything horribly wrong with what you're doing (it just differs from what I would do).

Anyway I hope some of this helps you out and good luck.

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Re: Initial frusturations, trying again

Post by Spacefrisian » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:11 am

Holofields dont feel as awesome as they used to be and spiritstones in this edition are somewhat redundant as you stil lose a hullpoint. Waveserpents only need a weapon upgrade and they should perform great.

And even though you like Dire Avengers (i think) they arent that much better than Guardian Defenders, dont get to hung up on the range of the weapons as most peeps do, they tend to ignore the fact that you also have a movement phase that you can add to the range of your weapon. Not to mention there are some awesome Warlock powers around.
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Re: Initial frusturations, trying again

Post by Anima » Mon Sep 16, 2013 12:50 pm

Thanks for the replies guys! I took the your advice and applied it into what's probably a superior list.

Farseer
Jetbike, Singing Spear

Autarch
Jetbike, Laser Lance, Banshee Mask

Warlock
Jetbike

Dire Avengers x 10
Wave Serpent - 135
Holofields, Scatter laser

Dire Avengers x 10
Wave Serpent - 135
Holofields, Scatter laser

Windrider Jetbikes x 6
Shuriken Cannon x 2

Fire Dragons x 5
Wave Serpent - 135
Holofields, Scatter laser

Fire Prism
Holofields, Spirit Stones

War Walkers x 3
x 3 Scatter Lasers x3 Star Cannons

Crimson Hunter

Shining Spears x 5
Exarch, Star Lance, Hit & Run

Total 1847

I check into the Autarch rule, Concreteus, and as long as their in your army you can modify your reserve rolls.

I love holofields, but I did drop the spirit stones on the serpents. I kept them on the fire prism so it doesn't lose a turn of shooting.

The Farseer and Warlock hang out with the jetbikes providing support. Warlock is there for conceal. The rest is pretty self explanatory.

The Dire Avengers are just personal thing. They're my favorite unit in the game in terms of fluff. I can see where you're coming about the guardians, though. I was thinking about swapping them out.

I've got a game with a necron player today who uses a pretty rough list. I feel pretty confident going in with this list.
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Re: Initial frusturations, trying again

Post by GusMortis » Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:23 pm

My suggestion is to dump the wave serpent that the dragons are in for a falcon with a scatter, shuri cann, holo.

These are and kill just about anything. Unless the pulse laser and fire dragons roll the evil 1 to wound, which happens so often it hurts.

Necrons are brutal against low toughness armies. Depending on the immortal build vehicles or wraithlords can help a lot.
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