Khorne Berzerkers

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hislittlecuzin
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Khorne Berzerkers

Post by hislittlecuzin » Wed May 02, 2018 12:30 am

I got a box of Khorne Berzerkers. I don’t have any of the chaos codex books; my favorite unit is Dawn of War Dark Crusade is the Khorne Berserker so I finally got some (after 11 years. Dowdc came out in 2007.)

I’m just curious to the basic build of them.
Bolt pistols chain swords and chain axes are all the lowest basic price? I think there’s a plasma pistol in there. I don’t care how many points or power the unit is I just want the basic build.

What codex do you recommend for these guys? I think there’s 2~ chaos marine codecies now. If i do a world eater army, I’d go all close combat khorne basing around berzerkers. Maybe 1 squad of chaos marines but I want to get up close and personal with my Khorne guys.

I don’t want this to weigh in but I also have the dark imperium nurgle guys. Are they in the Khorne codex as well? If not would you say that the basic chaos codex is good enough for a berzerker world eater army?
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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by Jeffers » Wed May 02, 2018 2:35 am

There's just one book where bezerkers are currently in for 8th. Are u thinking the 7th edition khorne daemonkin book?

I would keep them bare bones with just bolt pistols with a few axes chucked in

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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by Marit Lage » Wed May 02, 2018 8:12 am

There are three books that use the keyword HERETIC ASTARTES. Chaos Space Marines, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons. Khorne Berzerkers only appear in the generic Chaos Marines book, and while Plague Marines appear in the same book, the Drone and the Poxwalkers don't.

As far as loadout is concerned, most of them increase the damage output of the squad for minimal points increase, so I'd season them to taste.
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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by hislittlecuzin » Wed May 02, 2018 11:09 am

Jeffers wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 2:35 am
There's just one book where bezerkers are currently in for 8th. Are u thinking the 7th edition khorne daemonkin book?

I would keep them bare bones with just bolt pistols with a few axes chucked in
Yeah, I just checked GW's website. Khorne Daemonkin don't seem to be on the website. Are the chainswords that come in the box the same in terms of rules? There's 4~ guys per sprue and there's only 2 chainaxes per sprue.
Marit Lage wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 8:12 am
There are three books that use the keyword HERETIC ASTARTES. Chaos Space Marines, Death Guard, and Thousand Sons. Khorne Berzerkers only appear in the generic Chaos Marines book, and while Plague Marines appear in the same book, the Drone and the Poxwalkers don't.

As far as loadout is concerned, most of them increase the damage output of the squad for minimal points increase, so I'd season them to taste.
Alright that narrows my decision down! Chaos Marines Generic works for me! At least Dark Imperium comes with the rules for the models in the box.

Next time I'm in the store I might get a Kharn and the chaos book. Thanks to the both of you for the help!
Guardsmen are like ants. No matter how many get vaporized, they just keep on coming. Why can't pancakes be the same? I would pass the salt, but I just got tabled.

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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by Koonitz » Wed May 02, 2018 11:13 am

Just as a head's up, the Khorne Daemonkin book was a 7th Ed book. The rules were completely nullified by the release of 8th Edition.
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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by hislittlecuzin » Wed May 02, 2018 1:53 pm

Koonitz wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:13 am
Just as a head's up, the Khorne Daemonkin book was a 7th Ed book. The rules were completely nullified by the release of 8th Edition.
Thanks! I'm thinking I might get the basic chaos codex.
Guardsmen are like ants. No matter how many get vaporized, they just keep on coming. Why can't pancakes be the same? I would pass the salt, but I just got tabled.

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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by Koonitz » Wed May 02, 2018 2:33 pm

hislittlecuzin wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 1:53 pm
Koonitz wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:13 am
Just as a head's up, the Khorne Daemonkin book was a 7th Ed book. The rules were completely nullified by the release of 8th Edition.
Thanks! I'm thinking I might get the basic chaos codex.
It's the best place to start, for sure, as has been said already in this thread.

If you are interested in the Khorne Daemonkin ideal (ie: having a mixture of both Chaos Space Marines and Khorne Daemons), you can also pick up the Chaos Daemons codex. I wouldn't worry about picking it up right away, though, unless you have the extra disposable income.

Even playing Matched Play with the current beta rules, it's fairly easy to play a combined army of Marines and daemons.

If you just want to do Khorne Berserkers and Chaosy Mariney stuff, then you can stick to just the Heretic Astartes book and still build a solid, enjoyable army.
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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by Jeffers » Wed May 02, 2018 4:22 pm

I wouldnt go too heavy with the axes as chinswords offer an extra attack. Then the strategm allows them to attack again. Essentially 4 attacks each

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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by hislittlecuzin » Thu May 03, 2018 11:20 am

Koonitz wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 2:33 pm
It's the best place to start, for sure, as has been said already in this thread.

If you are interested in the Khorne Daemonkin ideal (ie: having a mixture of both Chaos Space Marines and Khorne Daemons), you can also pick up the Chaos Daemons codex. I wouldn't worry about picking it up right away, though, unless you have the extra disposable income.

Even playing Matched Play with the current beta rules, it's fairly easy to play a combined army of Marines and daemons.

If you just want to do Khorne Berserkers and Chaosy Mariney stuff, then you can stick to just the Heretic Astartes book and still build a solid, enjoyable army.
Yeah, my income isn't that disposable. I won't get the codex for a while. I'm just planning for the future. I think I'm going to stick with the Chaos Marines. The demons don't look that cool to me. Plus there's demon princes in the csm dex anyway so I get some demons.
Jeffers wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 4:22 pm
I wouldnt go too heavy with the axes as chinswords offer an extra attack. Then the strategm allows them to attack again. Essentially 4 attacks each
I don't know the stats of the chainaxes, but I wanted them to look like the ones in Dawn of War since they're cool and really strong in that game. I don't have much of a choice as the box comes with 6 chainaxes and 6 chainswords. 12 models can be constructed.
Guardsmen are like ants. No matter how many get vaporized, they just keep on coming. Why can't pancakes be the same? I would pass the salt, but I just got tabled.

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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by TheSinisterUrge » Thu May 03, 2018 2:02 pm

Jeffers wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 4:22 pm
I wouldnt go too heavy with the axes as chinswords offer an extra attack. Then the strategm allows them to attack again. Essentially 4 attacks each
I agree, they are already S5, and wound most infantry on 3s. Go for more base attacks as that works better with the Death to the False Emperor and Blood for the Blood God rules.
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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by hislittlecuzin » Sat May 05, 2018 10:04 am

TheSinisterUrge wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 2:02 pm

I agree, they are already S5, and wound most infantry on 3s. Go for more base attacks as that works better with the Death to the False Emperor and Blood for the Blood God rules.
If they become stronger than strength 5, wouldn’t that make them an ideal anti-vehicle squad as well?
Perhaps giving some chainaxes and a rhino could get them up close to do some heavy damage to strong units. Unless you think there’s some better close combat alternatives. I don’t know if anyone likes raptors/warp talons or chaos terminators in the World Eaters clan.

If I do anything besides bezerkers, they’ll likely be from my dark imperium death guard, support the berzerkers or be a 1 special unit. I’m maxing out model purchases when I’m about 500 points. I like the idea of smaller armies making units more valuable. With guard I’m usually like “yeah I’ve got 2 platoons and 3 tanks. Blow up whatever you want.”

If I play chaos I’m going heavily close combat as I have enough guard to be a shooty army. Plus I love me some Khorne Flakes.
Guardsmen are like ants. No matter how many get vaporized, they just keep on coming. Why can't pancakes be the same? I would pass the salt, but I just got tabled.

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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by Koonitz » Sat May 05, 2018 10:28 am

hislittlecuzin wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:04 am
TheSinisterUrge wrote:
Thu May 03, 2018 2:02 pm

I agree, they are already S5, and wound most infantry on 3s. Go for more base attacks as that works better with the Death to the False Emperor and Blood for the Blood God rules.
If they become stronger than strength 5, wouldn’t that make them an ideal anti-vehicle squad as well?
Perhaps giving some chainaxes and a rhino could get them up close to do some heavy damage to strong units. Unless you think there’s some better close combat alternatives. I don’t know if anyone likes raptors/warp talons or chaos terminators in the World Eaters clan.
DISCLAIMER: What follows is a fair amount of number crunching. Number crunching should be taken into consideration, but never to the exception of "Rule of Cool". If you like axes/higher strength and don't care about the numbers, give 'er. 100%. But if you care about performance on the board, read on.

The issue with "higher than str 5" is actually a purely mathematical one. Due to the way wounding works, now (needing double to get 2+ wounding), you can actually break down general "sweet spots". For instance, due to the prevalence of T4 infantry models (high volume of Marine players, and high number of other armies that also have T4 like Necrons/Orks), Str 5 is a sweet spot, as it gives you 3+ to wound. However, Str 6-7, in context, is useless, as it affords you no benefit. Therefore Str 5 with +1 attack is better than Str 6. And even against T5-6, the extra attack may balance out the reduced chance to wound compared to Str 6.

As well, considering the high volume of Marine players, the vast majority of non-infantry you will face are tanks, which are T7, or in the case of Land Raiders (and the increasingly popular Guard Leman Russ), T8. Against either, Str 5 and 6 are identical. Both wound on 5+. Thus, +1 attack is preferable, for added weight of dice. Str 7 is preferable to 6, as well, as it gives you a 4+ to wound against T7 vehicles, but gives no benefit over S5 against T8. Further, Str 8 is preferable, as it gives you a 3+ to wound T7 and 4+ to wound T8 and a 2+ to wound T4 (ie: power fists against infantry). Str 9 is also useful for 3+ to wound T8.

Basing off this information, the sweet spots are Str 5 and Str 8+.

The only time Str 6 is useful is against T3 models (Guard infantry, Eldar, Tau infantry, et cetera), as it gives 2+ wounding (and Str 5 is no different than Str 4) and against T5-6 (ie: some heavy infantry and light vehicles). These models tend to be rare and generally just as easily handled by your Str 8+ as any other target. Not to mention the T5 can be readily handled by massed Berzerker attacks at 4+ to wound.

Go with the axes if you like them, but you should be very mindful of WHAT you tend to face off against and determine whether it's worth upgrading a couple 'cause it's cool and because you don't want to waste too many points, or more, because it will be objectively useful against the opponents you face.
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Re: Khorne Berzerkers

Post by hislittlecuzin » Tue May 08, 2018 1:29 pm

Koonitz wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:28 am
~snip~
Ahh that makes sense. I thought the axe made them strength 5. I didn't know they already were. IMO strength 4-5 is one of the big leaps. (Or was-I haven't played 8th yet. I just have some rule-books.)
[+] Expand
Do you have any recommendations for melee/close range anti vehicle units? As in maybe I can give melta bombs to berzerkers or if the assault marine guys (Warp talons/raptors) can get some kind of meltagun? I'd do Havoks but I have a shooty guard army. I want a Khorne themed in your face melee blood for the blood god kinda scheme.
When I get the Chaos codex I'll check out some good supplements for these guys. I'm not sure if I'd prefer a rhino or Land Raider to get my guys up the board protected.

Thanks for the help, everyone!!!
Guardsmen are like ants. No matter how many get vaporized, they just keep on coming. Why can't pancakes be the same? I would pass the salt, but I just got tabled.

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