Thousand Sons a few months later

The ideal discussion board for all traitors, heretics, and the warp-spawned Daemons.
Locked
Warzone40k
MiniWarGaming Regular
Posts: 63
Joined: Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:43 am

Thousand Sons a few months later

Post by Warzone40k » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:15 pm

It's not a secret that we have the most beloved army here - it's Chaos Space Marines. And now, a couple of months after the release, it's time to find out how is it going with one of the most interesting legions - the Thousand Sons.

Perhaps a blog would be worth calling "Is there a life without Magnus?" So far, he still remains the main reason to play this army - the rise in price in no way made him less popular. We are much more interested in other units.

This was feared at the stage of release, and this is confirmed now - the main problem of the Thousand Sons army is the fact that there is practically nothing to use in it. Like this. Normal rubrics and terminators, in fact, perform the same function. Moreover, unexpectedly, 10 rubrics have the same number of wounds, the same firepower, and cost almost like 5 terminators. The difference in save does not play a special role, because the terminators are likely to get shot by something with high armor-piercing. Given the fairly popular tactics to enter via deepstrike for the stratagem/artifact, they even begin to perform the same function on the battlefield - destroying the screen.

They succeed in this quite easily. But when they face more durable targets. they cannot offer anything. Do not take seriously the missiles on the terminators. Moreover, they quickly die, getting under serious fire. "All is dust» rule saves against the weakest shooting, but if the enemy focuses them, he will quickly sweep away your costly units. In this regard, the rubrics look even more interesting - they at least force the enemy to target one wound models with high damage shooting. Definitely, an increase of the invulnerable save by 1 for both groups would lead to a significant increase in efficiency. In this case, it would not break the game at all - even with magic, they would get a maximum of 3 ++. The Wolves now have it everywhere, and the balance has not yet broken.

And what other Space Marines are there? We came here to play a legion ... And, in general, there’s none of them. The variety of sorcerers, in practice, boils down to Ahriman and one Exalted (though better, a Demon prince), and a Sorcerer in TDA to cast warptime on the units that have left entered the game via deepstrike. And they are too expensive. That’s all Space Marines in this codex. And it’s time for beastmen.

Tzaangors are good in any combinations. They are cheap, they can now be delivered by deepstrike, hit twice, can be improved with magic and shaman abilities. The option on the disc with bows is generally perfect - there is no other mobile shooting in this codex at all. And then there is an interesting question - do you really need Space Marines in this army? Practically, you can completely do without them. The units effectively destroyed by rubrics can be equally effectively destroyed by Tzaangors, at a much lower price.

In general, this is how a sports roster for the Thousand Sons looks like - Magnus, Tzaangors, and allies. The Death Guard, for example. But, in fact, this criticism does not mean that this codex is not interesting to play in the fan games. A huge variety of magic still makes the game more fun. Although, most spells, of course, are not used. The ability to use deepstrike also adds flexibility. Therefore, the main problem of this codex is not a small number of tactics, but a small number of units.

GW was frankly too lazy to finish this army. In the seventh edition, they still were not a separate codex and could be more interesting due to the formations and their features. For a full-fledged codex, they now have few tools. Look at the Death Guard. A ton of characters, different options for units, and even the basic troops can be taken both in shooting and in close combat modes. For example, they could create a squad of rubrics with heavy weapons? Or terminators, with a wider variety of options for melee? Special patterns of tanks, and much more. There are so many ideas that I want to write a fandex myself. Or, hope that in the next version of this codex GW will somehow expand this army of Tzaangors…

Image

Jeffers
MiniWarGaming Veteran
Posts: 164
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:18 am

Re: Thousand Sons a few months later

Post by Jeffers » Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:37 pm

I kinda agree. Without the big man, the bite is not overly there.

Whats killed the army the most is the psychic phase, going from mass spam in 7th to potential chance of casting or if u spam then its gonna cost you.

I feel some of the chaos legions dont have as much bite as the imperium sets.

I think the chaos legions need a revisit once all codexes are done. On the list:-

Word bearers- dont see them played these days
Iron warriors- feel sorry for these guys.
Night lords- easy to nulify the minus leadership these days
Thousand sons- need more non daemon choices for me.

User avatar
Koonitz
Mighty Manufactorium of MiniWarGaming Posts
Posts: 2833
Joined: Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:20 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting Pledges
Location: Grande Prairie, AB, CA

Re: Thousand Sons a few months later

Post by Koonitz » Sun Apr 08, 2018 2:38 pm

Jeffers wrote:
Sat Apr 07, 2018 2:37 pm
Thousand sons- need more non daemon choices for me.
Interesting mention, considering, to be a Thousand Sons detachment, they only have two daemon choices. Magnus and a Daemon Prince. Note that the Daemons in the codex (ie: Horrors/Screamers) don't have the <Thousand Sons> keyword, so would cause the detachment to no longer be <Thousand Sons>, thus losing the +6" psychic power range.

Edit: I just checked. Apparently Tzaangors have the <Daemon> keyword. I suppose that counts, but as I play Tzeentch in Age of Sigmar, where they are mortals, not daemons, I've always seen them as beastmen, instead of daemons.

I see Tzaangors as popular by virtue of hordes being popular in 8th, with expensive, elite models being much less so. As such, a rubric heavy army of Thousand Sons (as most people, I suspect, would prefer to play the army) may be non-viable in a competitive meta.

Though I do agree with the OP's mention that Rubric Marines and Scarab Occult are FAR too hilariously similar in battlefield role, with the only variability being the hellfire missile rack and the power swords on the Terminators. The inclusion of the Tzaangors was meant to give them more options, and give GW the excuse to release them as a whole army, without needing to put the effort into designing whole new model ranges, like they did with the Death Guard. As it is, they stand well as a fluffy supplement, but struggle with variability as a stand-alone army, especially if multiple people play the army in a given meta.

I, personally, strongly encourage the use of Forge World models when playing Thousand Sons, to give you a much more variable spread of unit options in the army.

Also, I'm sick and tired of seeing every single Thousand Sons player playing "Magnus + <some stuff>".
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

Realgone
Bronze Vault Member
Posts: 44
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2017 6:10 pm

Re: Thousand Sons a few months later

Post by Realgone » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:35 pm

I agree too, the codex is kinda underwhelming. The army was kicking butt while all the index was used, now it feel we need to fill our list with tzaangors and leave off the iconic unit of the legion. The lack of heavy unit makes it self feel too. Hopefully we'll get access to the forgeworld model for 30k, looking at you Osirion Dread and Automata.

Different aura would have been welcomed, only re-roll save of 1 wasn't that great at first. But on Magnus. Now it's all re-roll hit of 1 which is better but lack diversity. Making me ask why not having both aura on different sorcerers/character?

Nerf to Magnus, Brimstone and the smite beta rule not helping...

18 power look incredible from afar, but in play it get reduce to a few good one. Stratagem is the same, nothing for Rubric or Scarab but Veteran of the long war which is coming from the Chaos Codex.

On the bright side we get the best Demon Prince in the game. :)

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests