1,500 point Thousand Sons list

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Koonitz
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1,500 point Thousand Sons list

Post by Koonitz » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:32 pm

Normally, I'm not a tournament goer and was more than happy to consider not attending a local 1,500 point tournament that's going on. However, I had a bit of a devilish idea. As the event is being run by a guy who does not like Forge World (and has, on more than one occasion, argued to ban Forge World from the store-run events), I've decided to create a list with the specific intent to be a tongue-in-cheek response to his feelings.
[+] Expand
Battalion (3+3 command points total)

HQ
Ahriman
Exalted Sorcerer (Force stave/warpflame pistol)

TROOPS
Rubric Marines x9 + Sorc (Inferno bolters x8, Soulreaper cannon, Force stave/warpflame pistol)

Tzaangors x10 (Tzaangor blades)

Cultists x10 (CCW/pistol, this is a limitation of models available)

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Rhino (Combi-bolter x2)


HEAVY SUPPORT
Hellforged Sicaran Venator (Heavy Bolter, Lascannon sponsons)

Hellforged Sicaran Venator (Heavy Bolter, Lascannon sponsons)

Hellforged Land Raider Proteus (Twin Lascannon x2, Twin Heavy Bolters, Accursed Phylactory
The specific core of this is are the three Hellforged Tanks. These three tanks are horrendously expensive (832 points total), meaning the rest of my list is pretty sparse, all said. The Proteus and both Sicarans pick a flank and stick relatively close together. Ahriman sits between the three tanks, providing his aura and psychic buffs to them all. Note that Hellforged vehicles cannot be healed by any means other than their inherent ability, so no Temporal Manipulation.

The Proteus scares anyone who tries to deep strike against the tanks (the Phylactory gives a 12" bubble of any deep strikers have to roll a d6, on a 1-2, they take d3 mortal wounds). I am also seriously considering paying the 1CP to give the heavy bolters inferno bolt rounds (making the 6 shots AP-2). This will draw attention away from the two Sicaran Venators so they can do what they do best (blow up everything bigger than a Terminator in front of them). The three tanks all also have half-decent close combat ability (getting better as they take damage), so all 3 charging a flanking assault unit with Ahriman at the same time can really shock a poorly prepared opponent (especially if Prescience is on one of the tanks).

The Rhino is for the Tzaangors, and sits on a flank to provide a deep strike screen. The combi-bolters help whittle a horde down a bit, and it absorbs any charges, then the Tzaangors counter charge. It also provides some much needed mobility, as necessary.

The exalted sorcerer goes with the Rubrics, deployed to be able to heroically intervene. They hold a forward/midfield spot, an objective as necessary, then absorb any charge given them, countering with the warpflame pistols. Their forward position allows the sorcerer to use Death Hex on targets for the tanks.

The cultists are chumps. I needed a cheap troops unit to get the battalion. Pick an objective and cry on it or provide a deep strike screen.

Not sure yet if I want to pick Ahriman or the Sorcerer as my warlord. If the former, he's survivable, but he's not meant to get into combat if it can be avoided. If the sorc, I can take the +1 casting warlord trait so I get +1 for all spells but the aspiring sorc.

Spell spotlights:
Ahriman: Prescience, Glamour of Tzeentch, <Open>. The third spot is likely going to be Weaver of Fates, that way I can spread minor protection over two tanks or, with attrition, I can super-buff one.
Exalted Sorc: Death Hex, <Open>. Was considering putting Weaver of Fates here, or even doubling up, as it can help the Rubrics to survive when needed. Otherwise, Warptime to help push the Rubrics where they need to go is a possibility.
Aspiring Sorc: <Open>. I'm not sure what I'd put here. Tzeentch's Firestorm is high on the list, to provide something to cast other than mini-smite.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

quzzaq
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Re: 1,500 point Thousand Sons list

Post by quzzaq » Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:28 am

You can use presciense too.
i would preffer to use my own HQ, than ahriman, i like to be able to choose my warlord trait.

I like tour lis overall, im not fan of the FW, but i understand that is too strong to ignore.

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Koonitz
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Re: 1,500 point Thousand Sons list

Post by Koonitz » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:04 am

quzzaq wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:28 am
I like tour lis overall, im not fan of the FW, but i understand that is too strong to ignore.
I beg to differ, 100%. There ARE models within the Forge World line that are tuned too powerful and in need of a looking into, yes. The line is not OP as a general rule. After all, where were the Forge World models in the top 8 at LVO?

As an example, I'll use my list right here. I can replace the twin heavy bolters on the Proteus with a twin lascannon turret. Assuming I do, the points cost for those 3 tanks sits at 865. They have a total damage output of 14d6, assuming all heavy weapons (barring the two heavy bolters) hit and wound.

For that cost I can bring 4 Predator Annihilators with lascannon sponsons and have 100 points left over. Or, more accurately, 4.5 Predator Annihilators. That's a total of 18d6 damage output (assuming the 0.5 is equivalent to 2 lascannons). That's an increase of 4d6 damage output AND access to the killshot stratagem. They are more survivable, overall, as well, as it spreads the wounds over more targets.

Defensively, the Proteus is no different than a regular Land Raider, and costs 10 points more for the Phylactery and melee capabilities, at the loss of Power of the Machine Spirit. Yes, that's right, the Proteus cannot move and fire heavy without penalty. I would likely be better off taking a standard Land Raider.

Anyone who argues that Forge World is OP because "Forge World" is objectively wrong and needs to stop.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

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Koonitz
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Re: 1,500 point Thousand Sons list

Post by Koonitz » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:12 pm

quzzaq wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:28 am
You can use presciense too.
Of course. That's why I mentioned it as one of Ahriman's chosen powers.
quzzaq wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 12:28 am
i would preffer to use my own HQ, than ahriman, i like to be able to choose my warlord trait.
As a narrative gamer, I 100% agree with you. I do not like using special characters, and I hate being forced to use special characters. But, this is a tournament, and it's an absolute joke how much better Ahriman is over a standard Exalted Sorcerer, to the point you're a fool for not taking him as your first Exalted Sorcerer. Far as I'm concerned, he's horrendously under-costed, to the tune of at least 15-20 points.

That and I still can choose my Warlord trait. Ahriman doesn't HAVE to be my warlord, even though he's in my list. I can make the Exalted Sorc my warlord, as I mentioned in my original post, and then pick my warlord trait.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

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Re: 1,500 point Thousand Sons list

Post by quzzaq » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:06 pm

Koonitz wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:04 am


I beg to differ, 100%. There ARE models within the Forge World line that are tuned too powerful and in need of a looking into, yes. The line is not OP as a general rule. After all, where were the Forge World models in the top 8 at LVO?

Anyone who argues that Forge World is OP because "Forge World" is objectively wrong and needs to stop.
U said this, can u please explain me:
when i said op?, or about who are you talking about?.
when i said the whole line is op?
Later u mentioned specific models, why? i never signaled any model has op.

on short, u did an overanalisis because u didnt liked my wording, for me atleast too strong, is not the same than overpowered, seems like for u it is, i only call op, to what is far too easy to use and far too hard too defeat, at the point that is nearly unstopabble, too strong is just that, they are too cost efective to not use them since they shiny over the rest of options.

And after all, i just said im not a fan, i never said i dont like it, i never said dont use it, or that i dont use it.


Step down your witch hunt dude.

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Re: 1,500 point Thousand Sons list

Post by quzzaq » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:12 pm

For the moment the only things in the game ive seen that could reach the op level, and this is just my personal opinion, are guilliman, magnus, the ynnead, if we talk about specific models. and neither are FW, i dont play a lot vs FW, since is very expensive and in my country taxes made it even more expensive not many players cant afford it where i live.

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Koonitz
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Re: 1,500 point Thousand Sons list

Post by Koonitz » Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:59 pm

quzzaq wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 5:06 pm
Step down your witch hunt dude.
When people stop harassing me about Forge World, I will (and no, I don't mean you). Until then, I will argue the point. After all, this list, as I said, was entirely meant to be a tongue-in-cheek slight towards someone that does just that. You said Forge World is powerful, and you don't like it (implied because it's powerful).

It isn't, and it is my opinion that you are wrong. That's the point I meant to make, using specific models as an example. If Forge World is powerful, why can I compare my 3 Forge World models to an equivalent points level of GW models and come out weaker in the comparison for their intended purpose (anti-tank firepower)? Wouldn't that mean it's NOT powerful by comparison? Or would you imply that, despite being powerful, the GW stuff is more powerful (and therefore under-costed, by comparison?) Personally, I'd argue that the other benefits of these tanks make them BALANCED in comparison, and far trickier to use properly because of their duality of purpose (medium to long ranged firepower and melee).

To ensure I balance my point, I offer a counter-point. It is also my opinion that the Necron Gauss Pylon (a Forge World model), is tuned too powerful (or is grievously under-costed). I believe it should be looked into.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

quzzaq
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Re: 1,500 point Thousand Sons list

Post by quzzaq » Tue Mar 27, 2018 6:43 pm

I never harrased u only said my opinon, probe me wrong.

I never said powerful, again ur changing my words i said too strong, and i already explained u what i meaned with that, so ur raging at me for what u think i said eve when i already explained myself, are u on drugs?

You never stated an opinion, and i quote you: "Anyone who argues that Forge World is OP because "Forge World" is objectively wrong and needs to stop"
this is an afirmation of action, not ny any means an opinion.

The point ur triying to prove with specific models has no reason, since nobody said FW=OP.
anyway, theres too many factors to make a proper comparison, that would mean an exhaustive analisis against other models, same models, different categoies, a lot of statistics etc etc, u could do a book about cost-efecctivenes in models, your analisis is not valid, i could even goo deeper on why not is valid but u will say im harrasing you, even when im not talking about you but the models.

I think you will mock me for this but: now i understand why this subforum is so dead, u harras and start arguments against anyone who said anything u dont agree with ur scaring people away, and being a condescending while you pretend to carry the "torch of truth on 40k", i never intended to start a fight so im out, enjoy your empty forum.

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Re: 1,500 point Thousand Sons list

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Mar 29, 2018 1:52 pm

I wouldn't argue that's it's dead just yet. Miniwargaming has slowed down a lot because of the release of 7th a couple years ago, since a lot of people left the game. I don't post as often as I used to, since I've gotten married, and a much busier job.

That being said, relax and tone down the passive aggressive attitudes. We're all wargamers here, are we not?
Chaos Space Marine Tactica (old)
Models painted in 2018:
2 Exalted Champion
Dark Apostle
Abaddon
7 Raptors
2 Chaos Bikers
5 Chaos Terminators
4 Custodians

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