Tzeentch Thousand Sons/Daemons list, 2000 pts (multiple lists)

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Koonitz
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Tzeentch Thousand Sons/Daemons list, 2000 pts (multiple lists)

Post by Koonitz » Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:41 am

DISCLAIMER: Lots of words and theorycrafting below.

So the Slow Grow league I was part of is now over. The list I used did well, overall, suffering only one single loss over the course of the league. However, now it's time to look towards the tournament at the end. The tournament is coming up in two weeks, and does NOT require me to use the list I used in the league. It is a stand-alone tournament. As such, modifications may be made, or entirely different lists may be used.

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The following is the final 2000 point list I used for the slow grow:
[+] Expand
Battalion Detachment (Keyword <Tzeentch>)
HQ
Sorcerer in Terminator armour, combi-melta and force stave
Changeling

TROOPS
Rubric Marines x9, soulreaper cannon, Aspiring sorcerer with force axe and inferno pistol
Rubric Marines x9, soulreaper cannon, Aspiring sorcerer with force axe and inferno pistol
Tzaangors x10, tzaangor weapons, instrument of chaos
Horrors x30 (10 pink, 10 blue, 10 brimstone)

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Rhino, combi-bolter, combi-melta (for the Tzaangors)

ELITES
Scarab Occult Terminators x5, soulreaper cannon, Aspiring Sorcerer with force stave
Decimator siege engine, soulburner petard

FAST ATTACK
Screamers of Tzeentch x3

HEAVY SUPPORT
Sicaran Venator, sponson lascannons


Supreme Command Detachment (Keyword <Renegades and Heretics>)
HQ
Malefic Lord
Malefic Lord
Malefic Lord
As is, there is little I would want to change, excepting that the list has little to no long ranged anti-tank firepower, relying on a single Sicaran Venator and a soulburner petard. Beyond that, the short range on smite just doesn't cut it against massed high toughness targets, especially at range. I didn't engage it, but I feel this list would struggle against an Imperial Guard tank company, for example.

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The next list makes the following refinements, based on experiences from league games, explained with each entry. It is currently short by 152 points, so suggestions are welcome.

- Replaced combi-melta on Rhino with regular combi-bolter: Over the course of the league (roughly 20 games all said, which the Rhino was present for all games), the melta fired maybe 4-5 times, doing anything notable twice. For its cost, it just didn't pull its weight. Removing it and replacing it with a regular combi-bolter reduces the Rhino's cost and gives me a little extra firepower against regular targets and in overwatch.

- Removed the screamers: At the 1500 point step of the league, I brought 5 screamers into the list, which was dropped to 3 at 2000 due to disappointment in their performance. They were lackluster at best. The lamprey bite looks nice on paper, but with one attack per model and 4+ to hit, then suffering a 5+ to wound against any large target (which the bite was designed to deal with), they never did any notable damage against any target. They're okay against infantry, but I had far more effective means to deal with infantry in my list. At best, they usually managed to eat overwatch to protect another of my units, but that's it. Though I admit I will miss their speed. That's all they have going for them, as far as I am concerned.

- Replaced my Sorcerer in Terminator armour with Ahriman: In every case, the sorcerer in Terminator armour would use deep strike simply to ensure he was on the right part of my lines, then would become a prescience power battery for the tank. Every time he tried to get dug into combat, he'd get slaughtered because he's a basic sorcerer. I'd never deep strike him and the terminators behind enemy lines, because I have no way to support them, otherwise. Ahriman is a better psychic battery in every way, shape and form, for fewer points and provides aura bonuses while he's at it. The only loss is in the terminator armour and survivability, which never factors in, if I'm not stupid. Note Ahriman will not be using his disc of tzeentch, as I am using the Horus Heresy model.
[+] Expand
Battalion Detachment (Keyword <Tzeentch>)
HQ
Ahriman
Changeling

TROOPS
Rubric Marines x9, soulreaper cannon, Aspiring sorcerer with force axe and inferno pistol
Rubric Marines x9, soulreaper cannon, Aspiring sorcerer with force axe and inferno pistol
Tzaangors x10, tzaangor weapons, instrument of chaos
Horrors x30 (10 pink, 10 blue, 10 brimstone)

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Rhino, combi-bolterx2 (for the Tzaangors)

ELITES
Scarab Occult Terminators x5, soulreaper cannon, Aspiring Sorcerer with force stave
Decimator siege engine, soulburner petard

HEAVY SUPPORT
Sicaran Venator, sponson lascannons


Supreme Command Detachment (Keyword <Renegades and Heretics>)
HQ
Malefic Lord
Malefic Lord
Malefic Lord
I'm not sure what to use the 152 points on. Here are a couple ideas I had:
- Remove 1 brimstone, giving me points for 5 Screamers, again. While I bashed them above, their speed wasn't half bad to support the Rhino full of Tzaangors. That and I have 5 models painted up, ready to go, so that's a bonus point in their favour. It would give me the ability to flank, and I can support them with the terminators at the right moment. Unfortunately, I'm still not sold on the screamers, yet...
- Find 30 points and field a daemon prince with wings. This would give me a similar degree of flanking power to the screamers, or, quite simply, some good ol' fashioned heavy hitting support in the middle of my lines (getting that reroll 1 to hit aura is a nice perk). Removing the Changeling is an option, even though I like the -1 to hit my horror screening unit. The spare points might even allow me to bring a herald, instead, giving the horrors much more hitting power (they SUCK in combat...).
- Find some other means to increase my anti-tank firepower.

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The following list was strictly in response to two factors:
- I want to field my Legion Glaive super-heavy tank, using the Legion Falchion rules, as the Glaive has no 40k rules, itself.
- There is a player with a Necron Gauss Pylon that is causing a LOT of people to complain and moan about its OPness, and I wanted to see if I could match like-for-like.

It is also 122 points short
[+] Expand
Battalion Detachment (Keyword <Tzeentch>)
HQ
Ahriman
Sorcerer in Terminator armour, combi-melta and force stave

TROOPS
Rubric Marines x9, soulreaper cannon, Aspiring sorcerer with force axe and inferno pistol
Tzaangors x10, tzaangor weapons, instrument of chaos
Horrors x30 (10 pink, 10 blue, 10 brimstone)

DEDICATED TRANSPORT
Rhino, combi-bolter (for the Tzaangors)

ELITES
Scarab Occult Terminators x5, soulreaper cannon, Aspiring Sorcerer with force stave

LORD OF WAR
Legion Falchion super-heavy tank
While it would give me an excuse to paint up the big guy, two things gave me pause on this list.
- I talked about using the Glaive as a stand in to the tournament organizer, and discussed its capabilities. The TO already has a dislike of Forge World models, lead in part by the complaints about the Necron Pylon. He straight up said that hearing about the Falchion makes him want to ban Forge World for the tournament (again). Because of this, I'm reluctant to take it.
- I did some research on the Gauss Pylon, and have come to agree with the complainers. This thing's rules are horse****. It's main weapon is an anti-air weapon, but since the pylon starts with a 2+ BS (WHY?!), it's still reliable against any target (and with 30 wounds, you need to do 15 before it even starts dropping BS). The main weapon is macro, which doubles all damage against any model with the <Titanic> keyword. What this means is that its d6 shot main weapon needs to only do 2 wounds on the Falchion to 1-shot it, which it is quite likely to do (6+d3 damage, average 8, is 16 damage a hit). Since it can deep strike, it will ALWAYS get the alpha strike, no matter who gets first turn. The pylon's only weakness is that it's almost useless against hordes outside 3". Since hordes are the meta, it hasn't shown up in the tournament scene.

As such, I'm not likely to bring the Glaive. I want to have fun, instead of conceding 1st turn because the anti-air Pylon 1-shot a tank almost twice its cost.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

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