Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

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Marit Lage
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Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Marit Lage » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:25 am

With the new edition, new Codex, and new Forge World index in hand, I'm going to be learning ad much as I can from each game, figuring out Chaos Space Marines from the ground up for the new Tactica. Now, I'm going to make sure it happens this time around, and I'm sorry for you guys who wanted an update in 7th edition. It was a really bad edition for Chaos, and I stopped playing the game entirely for over a year.

I've got a couple of game lines up this weekend, one of which is going to be a 500 point patrol game against Death Guard, and the other will be either a 1,500 or 1,750 point against Necrons. If you guys could offer feedback on how I could do things better during this process, I would really appreciate it.
Chaos Space Marine Tactica (old)
Models painted in 2018:
2 Exalted Champion
Dark Apostle
Abaddon
7 Raptors
2 Chaos Bikers
5 Chaos Terminators
4 Custodians

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Arnathos
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Re: Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Arnathos » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:14 am

Marit Lage wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:25 am
...I'm sorry for you guys who wanted an update in 7th edition. It was a really bad edition for Chaos...
Lies and Hearsay! I even won a tournament as chaos last autumn!(A casual one, but still!) Last edition was fine as long as you were willing to try things that were a bit unusual, large groups of CSM with icons, Land Raiders with dirge casters and dozer blades, forgeworld units like Conversion Beamer rapiers. You could keep it fluffy and still effective to be honest.
Time will tell... Sooner or later... Time will tell.
WH40k:
IG 5000pts[95% Painted]
Word Bearers 10000pts[89% Painted]
WHFB:
Empire 5000pts[95% Painted]

FYI, I'm Dutch, not Finnish, I just live there.

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Marit Lage
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Re: Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Marit Lage » Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:54 am

Arnathos wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 6:14 am
Marit Lage wrote:
Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:25 am
...I'm sorry for you guys who wanted an update in 7th edition. It was a really bad edition for Chaos...
Lies and Hearsay! I even won a tournament as chaos last autumn!(A casual one, but still!) Last edition was fine as long as you were willing to try things that were a bit unusual, large groups of CSM with icons, Land Raiders with dirge casters and dozer blades, forgeworld units like Conversion Beamer rapiers. You could keep it fluffy and still effective to be honest.
Isn't having to rely on fringe options in order to maintain a modicum of power an indication of a bad Codex? Chaos was left out in the cold for years, having to rely on supplements and Forge World to stay relevant.

A healthy book means that these things are options, but not required. And I said that it was a bad edition for Chaos, not that we couldn't win tournaments. 8)
Chaos Space Marine Tactica (old)
Models painted in 2018:
2 Exalted Champion
Dark Apostle
Abaddon
7 Raptors
2 Chaos Bikers
5 Chaos Terminators
4 Custodians

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Marit Lage
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Posts: 4182
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Re: Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Marit Lage » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:29 pm

Got an update on the 1,500 point game this weekend- it's been upgraded to a 2,400 point game, Necrons against my WIP Reaver Titan, World Burner.
Chaos Space Marine Tactica (old)
Models painted in 2018:
2 Exalted Champion
Dark Apostle
Abaddon
7 Raptors
2 Chaos Bikers
5 Chaos Terminators
4 Custodians

Jeffers
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Re: Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Jeffers » Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:19 am

It be good to see a detail indepth review of units. I. Finding my Night Lords very hit and miss which is great as you dont know whats going to happen.

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Marit Lage
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Re: Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:33 pm

Jeffers wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 9:19 am
It be good to see a detail indepth review of units. I. Finding my Night Lords very hit and miss which is great as you dont know whats going to happen.
You're more than welcome to add more data in the data collection thread. I'm not using all of the units in the book, and short of proxy, I'll need help from someone regarding them.
Chaos Space Marine Tactica (old)
Models painted in 2018:
2 Exalted Champion
Dark Apostle
Abaddon
7 Raptors
2 Chaos Bikers
5 Chaos Terminators
4 Custodians

User avatar
Marit Lage
MiniWarGaming Grand Marshall
Posts: 4182
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Headline EventTook part in a Painting Deathmatch Headline EventWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Orlando, Florida
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Re: Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Marit Lage » Sun Oct 08, 2017 5:49 pm

Got to use the Reaver yesterday, and man was it fun. I used an incinerator missile bank, a gatling blaster, and a Reaver power fist, and fielded him alongside a pair of Hell Blades against about 3,000 points of Necrons.
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I must say, gatling blasters are a great all comers option for Reavers. Lots of shots, good damage, and absolutely annihilate multi-wound infantry like bikes and destroyers while still being effective against vehicles.

We called the game at the bottom of turn five (friends met is at the shop to play Magic), and while he had killed both Hell Blades, the Reaver killed everything he had, sans the Monolith, a Barge, and some Warriors.
Chaos Space Marine Tactica (old)
Models painted in 2018:
2 Exalted Champion
Dark Apostle
Abaddon
7 Raptors
2 Chaos Bikers
5 Chaos Terminators
4 Custodians

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Arnathos
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Location: Oulu, Finland.

Re: Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Arnathos » Wed Nov 01, 2017 5:02 pm

Sorry for the almost Necro, but I felt this didn't need a topic of its own. Today I finally took the plunge and got the CSM codex as the stars aligned and payday converged with the codex being in stock at the FLGS (also I'm wrapping up my 9th Blood Bowl team atm and thought I'd take a rest kitbashing and painting new ones).

In the past months I have dropped almost completely off the bandwagon. I still don't own the BRB and I feel sort of naked having my rules expertise stripped away so drastically.

Anyway if Marit doesn't mind, I will be trying to get some games in with my Word Bearers, never the power house of the legions, but no slouches either in the scheme of things. I do feel we need a proper tactica for CSM as the internet is sorely lacking a good extensive guide.
Time will tell... Sooner or later... Time will tell.
WH40k:
IG 5000pts[95% Painted]
Word Bearers 10000pts[89% Painted]
WHFB:
Empire 5000pts[95% Painted]

FYI, I'm Dutch, not Finnish, I just live there.

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Marit Lage
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Posts: 4182
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:51 pm
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Re: Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:44 am

Please do, Arnathos. I value your opinion for this especially, since you use generic CSM instead of cult troops like I've seen others do, and as a member of the old guard, I know you've got the patience for this.
Chaos Space Marine Tactica (old)
Models painted in 2018:
2 Exalted Champion
Dark Apostle
Abaddon
7 Raptors
2 Chaos Bikers
5 Chaos Terminators
4 Custodians

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Arnathos
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Location: Oulu, Finland.

Re: Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Arnathos » Wed Nov 22, 2017 1:50 am

So I had my first game with the new dex last week. I brought a bit of everything in the list.

HQ:
Warpsmith
Vanilla

Chaos lord
Jump pack
Power fist+ combi melta

Troops:
9 CSM (made a 2k list then had to reduce it to 1500, hence the odd number)
Meltagun+ Icon of Vengeance

10 melee cultist

10 shooty cultists

Elite:
10 Possessed
Icon of Vengeance

Heavy support:
Maulerfiend with magna cutters
Maulerfiend with magna cutters
Defiler with Scourge and Reaper

Transport:
2 Rhinos stock


Went up against a fairly balanced Ork list, it was a tough battle but tilted in my favour toward the end. My opponent, playing Orks and not having much experience vs regular chaos marines did not realise at any point that he could have out shot me easily. His drive to get into melee fast was his downfall.


Unit reviews:

Cultists - Decent fodder, they don't really last, but I feel small squads might actually be worth it, if not getting abby. Voice of lorgal apostle can be good to herd many small squads.

CSM 'tactical' squads(strategic squads?) - these are trash unless equipped with pistols and chainswords, they get so many more attacks, even if they can only use the pistols every other turn. So far I've only tested 10ish man squad's and not tested large footslogging groups.

Warpsmith - One of my favourite HQs at the moment, makes daemon engines super tanky (which, in all honesty, they need) but also really cheap for what he does. Decent 2nd HQ.

Chaos Lord with Jump Pack - Also an instant favourite, playing Word Bearers I would tool him up to be a sort of Siege Master, with a jump pack and the Voice of Lorgar he can cover huge stretches of the battlefield with his re-roll 1s ability. A power fist and a Combi-weapon also make him a good assassin. With the right positioning he can swing the battle in your favour really easily.

Possessed - Cute and adorable, but not at all reliable. They got a bit more tanky and are somewhat worth their cost and if you roll well they can do really well, but they are super luck dependent. Having no shooting attack also limits them. -2 AP is also nice.

Maulerfiends - My first impression is trash really, they are tanky with a warpsmith nearby, but he ultimately won't be able to keep up with them. Cutter pistols are fun, but overall, low volume of attacks with a 4+ to hit is just bad. Just take predators, or even CSM squads as these doggos are very pricey.

Defiler - Tons cheaper than it used to be. Its shooting is lacking compared to before, but it did become super tanky and has more melee attacks than before. Warpsmiths have a slightly easier time keeping up and if you can support it with a re-roll aura it is pretty beastly in melee. With just a few points more than a maulerfield, I feel the defiler is clearly the superior option.

Rhino - Twice the price they used to be but getting the assault vehicle rule is totally worth it. A great way of moving your dudes across the field. I also like using them as charge roadblocks.


Still have a ton of stuff to try out. I was thinking of maybe a gunline army with predators and havocs and having a terminator lord with Voice of Lorgar running behind them, putting Iron Warrior Siege Breakers to shame. Will need to try Raptors, terminaotrs and Land Raiders at some point as well.
Time will tell... Sooner or later... Time will tell.
WH40k:
IG 5000pts[95% Painted]
Word Bearers 10000pts[89% Painted]
WHFB:
Empire 5000pts[95% Painted]

FYI, I'm Dutch, not Finnish, I just live there.

User avatar
Marit Lage
MiniWarGaming Grand Marshall
Posts: 4182
Joined: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:51 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Headline EventTook part in a Painting Deathmatch Headline EventWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Orlando, Florida
Contact:

Re: Black Crusader: a Journey of Discovery

Post by Marit Lage » Fri Jan 26, 2018 3:54 pm

Necro time! Wanted to give an update and let you guys know that this project is still alive and well. Been playing a lot of games, more so than even sixth edition, and I figured if share some findings-

Abaddon- still expensive, but cheaper than ever before, with bonus command points and more attacks. The 12" fearless has a huge footprint, and he can keep several 40 man units of cultists in one place.

Dark Apostle- cheap and good for cultists, especially when paired with an Exalted Champion.

Exalted Champion- cheap, and great for the assault phase, since rerolling to wound is usually better than rerolling to hit during the assault phase. I wish these could take jump packs or bikes.

Chaos Cultists- still really solid, especially when backed up by a Dark Apostle or Abaddon, and the Strategem is nuts.

Chaos Space Marines- still old reliable, but overpriced compared to other options available.

Hell Blade- suffers from hitting on a 4+, but really solid for its price. Its cannons hit really hard, and being able to pivot twice is great.

Chaos Spawn- still good, but not the speed freaaks they used to be. 2 damage weapons make these guys shred stuff like Terminators and the like.

Chaos Terminators- expensive with combi-weapons, but much more survivable and still pack quite a punch.

Obliterators- took a hit with random weapons, but knowing profiles before selecting targets really helps, along with a high rate of fire and retaining deep strike.

Chaos Predators- puts out a withering hail of fire, and has greatly benefited from the ability to split fire all of your weapons. Predator autocannons in particular hit very hard compared to before.

Defiler- its shooting has gotten worse, but with plenty of attacks and being very cheap (167 points with scourge and reaper), they're the strongest they've been in a long time.
Chaos Space Marine Tactica (old)
Models painted in 2018:
2 Exalted Champion
Dark Apostle
Abaddon
7 Raptors
2 Chaos Bikers
5 Chaos Terminators
4 Custodians

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