Black Legion Warband

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SweetSorrow
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Black Legion Warband

Post by SweetSorrow » Thu Apr 06, 2017 5:32 pm

So, going through my testing phase of the Traitor Legion book and decided with EC, NL, WB, and WE out of the way I would at least give the other few a try before i dismiss them as something I will never field.

Also there will be a lack of "The Lost and the Damned" for the pure reason of I have been adding it too everything and I want to stop that. So, there will be NO lost and the damned in this list so I would kindly ask my dark friends to not suggest throwing it in there <3

any who here it is,

Black Legion Detachment - 1846

Black Legion Warband - 1166
Chaos Lord - 202
Terminator Armor, VotLW, MoS, ChainFist, Lightning Claw, SoC, Gift of Mutation, Combat Familiar

Chaos Space Marine - 190
VotLw, 5 guys, 2 Plasma guns, LC, Melta bomb

Chaos Space Marine - 190
VotLw, 5 guys, 2 Plasma guns, LC, Melta bomb

Chaos Terminator - 254
2 extra Terminators, 1 chainfist, 2 combi-flamers, 3 combi- Meltas, VotLw, MoS, Icon of Excess

Chaos Bikers - 100
2 Melta Guns, LC on Champ. melta Bomb

Hellbrutes - 135
2 Powerfists, Built-in Heavy Flamers.

Rhino - 45
Combi-bolter, Dozer Blades

Rhino - 45
Combi-Bolter, Dozer Blades

Fist of the Gods - 690
Warpsmith - 200
VotLW, Eye of Night, Power Sword

Chaos Predator - 125
Lascanon Sponsons, Combi-bolter, Dozer Blades

Chaos Predator - 125
Lascanon Sponsons, combi-bolter. Dozer Blades

Chaos Land Raider - 235
Dozer Blades

Here is what I have so far, any help or suggestions will be nice. Happy Wargaming ^^
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:06 pm

Just a few things.
1. I don't really like the GoM on the lord, it makes an already expensive character more expensive with no guarantee that you will roll a result that benefits you.
2. I am pretty sure you only unlock 2 special weapons when you have 10 chaos space marines in the squad.
3. I personally feel like unless you are running the black legion decurion there is really no reason other than fluff to use the black legion warband over the chaos warband, the objective secured on the chaos warband is invaluable
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:07 pm

Ignore the last point, I don't know why but I didn't see the fact that you ARE running the black legion decurion.
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by SweetSorrow » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:58 pm

Oh, sorry clarification about the Chaos Marine Squad, It is in fact a 10-man unit. My note about the 5 guys was that that line is where I placed all the upgrades purchased for the squad, in this case 5 bodies to bring the squad up to 10. And Yea the GoM is not really practical but didn't think of much else and the Decurion lets me roll 2 when I do roll so figured why not.

Thanks for the advice :)

Do have a fair point about the loss of Obj secured though....
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:14 am

Also if you want your chaos lord to go with your terminators in the land raider I'd cut them down to 4 dudes instead of 5 so you have room, if your footslogging him there is a good chance he won't reach combat which is where he wants to be.
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by Kovlovsky » Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:48 pm

Hey SweetSorrow! You have a hard time finding your favorite legion, huh? :) We all went through this at some point. I have to say that I fell into love with TS pretty quick though. Their fluff and the ancient egyptian look got the better of me. :) I have to say I've always liked the BL colours and their fluff is pretty neat.

Anyway, I have a few things to say about your list. First, I think your Chaos Lord carry some dead weight. The Gift of Mutation has already been dealt with, but I would also question the usefulness of the combat familliar. It's not a bad piece of wargear, but most of the time, these 15 points are better spent elsewhere. It's your call though.

The other thing is about the Chaos Space Marines. The Black Legion Warband allows you to take either Chosen or CSMs in this category which is different from the Chaos Warband that forces you to take CSMs. At first glance, Chosen looks like expensive CSMs that pay a premium for +1 attack and +1 Ld, but their true strength comes from the fact they can take 5 special weapons +1 combi-weapon. This is a lot of firepower and remember that this formation gives you the ability to reroll to hit and to wound rolls of 1 with all units of the formation after destroying or killing an entire unit in a particular phase. That means that heavy firepower is a blessing to trigger it. I think you should go for two Chosen squads, one with 5 plasma guns and 1 combi-plasma and another one with 5 meltaguns and 1 combi-melta. They will serve you well and rerolling 1s will minimise the Get's Hot problems with the plasma team. The Black Legion Warband might not give you Objective Secured, but it can be deadly.

The third thing is your Helbrute. If you like them, it won't do harm to keep it, but since you only have a choice between it and Havocs, I would consider taking Havocs instead. They're much better and can help you triggering the special bonus of the BL Warband. If you don't have them yet, don't buy the GW ones though because they have mixed and matched weapons and are ugly as hell. Convert them instead with FW Horus Heresy weapons, CSM bodies and arms, FW bodies and arms for weapons supported on the shoulder or using Space Marines Devastators. If you're rich and want great looking CSM Autocannon or Lascannons Havocs, you have the Evil Craft ones here who also makes amazing CSMs or Chosen models + all kind of special weapons and combi-weapons. But they're not cheap: http://evilcraft.eu/products/.

Did you buy addition combi-bolters on your Rhinos? Because normally, Rhinos are 35 pts +5 for a doser blade. If you bought combi-bolters, honestly I don't think it's useful. That's 10 pts that could be better used elsewhere because Rhinos tend to be short lived and losing your weapon to a Weapon Destroyed result is not important.

Like Salamand3r4Lyfe told, if your Land Raider is meant to carry your warlord and terminators, you will have to reduce your terminator squad by one or they won't have the room for it.

Now, about your Warpsmith, he already starts equiped with a power axe and as far as I know, he doesn't get the option to switch it to another power weapon, but only for an artefact weapon. So, buying a power sword is both useless and illegal. The Eye of the Nght is potentially very powerful, but I would only bring it when you know that you will face a mechanised list. Otherwise, it's an overkill. Keep your Warpsmith out of harm until you're ready to use it though, because it's a lot of point going into smoke otherwise.

Also, keep in mind that Warpsmith aren't bad in CC despite having only a CC of 4. They get +2 attacks from their mechatendrils with a further +1 from having a power axe and a bolt pistol. That's 5 attacks base, 6 on the charge. With the Mark of Khorne, it's now 7 on the charge. It could be tempting to switch the power axe and drop the Eye of Night to take either the SpineShiver Blade or an Axe of Blind Fury. He could make a huge amount of attacks. The Axe of Blind Fury would drop him to WS 3, but with the Black Legion you reroll to hit in all rounds of CC against imperial armies. This a potential of 13 Strength 6 AP2 attacks with it. If you do this, reduce your terminators to 3, so that the Land Raider can carry your Warpsmith, warlord and your terminators. That means they will have to switch to the Mark of Khorne and a Icon of Wrath, but it might be worth it. You can also go with every one with mark of Slaanesh and take the SpineShiver Blade on the Warpsmith instead. You lose AP2 and 2 pts of strength and one attack, but you will reach initiative 6 which will be useful if you face a Space Marine character.

Also, let's talk about the lack of Objective Secured. Generally, competitive lists are built on Detachments and formations that give Objective Secured because in the world dominated by Maelstrom of War missions, playing the objectives generally make you win. But, I don't have it with my TS and I still win games. It's totally possible to play without it, but it will sometimes force you to either table your opponent or remove him from objectives with brute force. But if you want it with the BL, the legion actually plays quite well with a CAD. Both your Chosen and Terminators are troop choices. Chosen have insane firepower and when joined by Abaddon, they get Prefered Enemy (Space Marines) which will help you in most games since Space Marines of all kind are super popular (and you have a Space Wolf friend if I remember well). It's a good combination with plasma chosen. So, they will hold victory locations and kill everything. If you want them to be hard to remove, you can even give them the MoS and an Icon of Excess. But Objective Secured Terminators are also awesome. You can deepstrike them all over the place and laugh at your enemy pathetic attempts to remove them from objectives. Another option is playing the generic Black Crusade detachment (availlable to all CSMs) and use the Chaos Warband instead of the Black Legion one. You gain Objective Secured on everything in the formation, but you will have to field two CSM squads instead of Chosen. So there is a trade off here. So here are your options.

I hope this will help you making your decisions and tweaking your lists.
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by SweetSorrow » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:31 pm

Kovlovsky wrote:Hey SweetSorrow! You have a hard time finding your favorite legion, huh? :) We all went through this at some point. I have to say that I fell into love with TS pretty quick though. Their fluff and the ancient egyptian look got the better of me. :) I have to say I've always liked the BL colours and their fluff is pretty neat.

Something along those lines. Several of them seem pretty cool so I am trying to try many of them out. I am trying to give them all a solid try but so far it has been really hard to find one that really calls to me more than others. A problem that is half the reason I have a bunch of little warbands of various factions. I do need to stop painting so much Flawless Host though, getting tired of the Guard player giving me crap since they don't exist apparently anymore. This guy will actually be brought up again later. Must say I am jealous that you found the TS so quick, their Egyptian is really cool and I am happy others are not having the same pain I am in trying to find one.

Anyway, I have a few things to say about your list. First, I think your Chaos Lord carry some dead weight. The Gift of Mutation has already been dealt with, but I would also question the usefulness of the combat familliar. It's not a bad piece of wargear, but most of the time, these 15 points are better spent elsewhere. It's your call though.


Well, the Chaos Lord could stand to shave a few points. My problem is i was drawing a blank on where the 10 points where better spent so decided to add it on to get the whole 2 for the price of 1 per detachment bonuses. The Familiar is actually a by-product of a certain smuck + Organizer that wants WYSWIG in which my only Terminator Lord has a combat familiar modelled on his base. So barring purchasing a new Lord I have no alternatives at the time. I did not think the 2 str 4 ap - attack were thatttt bad though. Familiar was definitely better in the Old codex though :(


The other thing is about the Chaos Space Marines. The Black Legion Warband allows you to take either Chosen or CSMs in this category which is different from the Chaos Warband that forces you to take CSMs. At first glance, Chosen looks like expensive CSMs that pay a premium for +1 attack and +1 Ld, but their true strength comes from the fact they can take 5 special weapons +1 combi-weapon. This is a lot of firepower and remember that this formation gives you the ability to reroll to hit and to wound rolls of 1 with all units of the formation after destroying or killing an entire unit in a particular phase. That means that heavy firepower is a blessing to trigger it. I think you should go for two Chosen squads, one with 5 plasma guns and 1 combi-plasma and another one with 5 meltaguns and 1 combi-melta. They will serve you well and rerolling 1s will minimise the Get's Hot problems with the plasma team. The Black Legion Warband might not give you Objective Secured, but it can be deadly.

I did not see in the detachment where it said I could grab Chosen over Chaos Space Marine squads as part of its min requirement. I must have over-looked in on accident. Not sure where I would find the points to make the swap unless i started just reduced my body count. I could do the change, just would need to find the points and make sure I won;t be yelled at for proxying in my Dark Angels and Sternguard for Chosen

The third thing is your Helbrute. If you like them, it won't do harm to keep it, but since you only have a choice between it and Havocs, I would consider taking Havocs instead. They're much better and can help you triggering the special bonus of the BL Warband. If you don't have them yet, don't buy the GW ones though because they have mixed and matched weapons and are ugly as hell. Convert them instead with FW Horus Heresy weapons, CSM bodies and arms, FW bodies and arms for weapons supported on the shoulder or using Space Marines Devastators. If you're rich and want great looking CSM Autocannon or Lascannons Havocs, you have the Evil Craft ones here who also makes amazing CSMs or Chosen models + all kind of special weapons and combi-weapons. But they're not cheap: http://evilcraft.eu/products/.

I have some kitbashed AC Havocs but those are literally all the havocs i own bar my one squad of the aforementioned havocs of....erhm...poor visual quality....I kind of like dreadnoughts in general but I would rather get a better feel for what the Legion does over my personal tastes first then modify it later.

Did you buy addition combi-bolters on your Rhinos? Because normally, Rhinos are 35 pts +5 for a doser blade. If you bought combi-bolters, honestly I don't think it's useful. That's 10 pts that could be better used elsewhere because Rhinos tend to be short lived and losing your weapon to a Weapon Destroyed result is not important.

Same thing as the deal with the GoM got to the end of making my list and had a few points left so kind of just Eh'd it.I know, the worst way to make lists. But I have never been the best at making competitive or strong lists. Heck before I moved my LGS knew me as the guy that ran possessed lists in 4ed cause I just loved my little deamon possessed traitors.

Like Salamand3r4Lyfe told, if your Land Raider is meant to carry your warlord and terminators, you will have to reduce your terminator squad by one or they won't have the room for it.

It was actually just going to hold my Warpsmith to keep him close by the Preds without being in the open. Did not actually think of putting my terminators in there and making it an assault transport instead.

Now, about your Warpsmith, he already starts equiped with a power axe and as far as I know, he doesn't get the option to switch it to another power weapon, but only for an artefact weapon. So, buying a power sword is both useless and illegal. The Eye of the Nght is potentially very powerful, but I would only bring it when you know that you will face a mechanised list. Otherwise, it's an overkill. Keep your Warpsmith out of harm until you're ready to use it though, because it's a lot of point going into smoke otherwise.

Oh. I swear my CSM codex was just a misprint then. I was having so many ??? at it looking at it because it did not say in his equipment that he had a power axe. Just a bolt pistol and the mechatendrils so i assumed he just had a CCW. I can make the adjustment so I am not being illegal, i dont want to break the rules. Eye of Night was just because I wanted an artefact and it seemed nifty. No real reason behind it so it can go to then.

Also, keep in mind that Warpsmith aren't bad in CC despite having only a CC of 4. They get +2 attacks from their mechatendrils with a further +1 from having a power axe and a bolt pistol. That's 5 attacks base, 6 on the charge. With the Mark of Khorne, it's now 7 on the charge. It could be tempting to switch the power axe and drop the Eye of Night to take either the SpineShiver Blade or an Axe of Blind Fury. He could make a huge amount of attacks. The Axe of Blind Fury would drop him to WS 3, but with the Black Legion you reroll to hit in all rounds of CC against imperial armies. This a potential of 13 Strength 6 AP2 attacks with it. If you do this, reduce your terminators to 3, so that the Land Raider can carry your Warpsmith, warlord and your terminators. That means they will have to switch to the Mark of Khorne and a Icon of Wrath, but it might be worth it. You can also go with every one with mark of Slaanesh and take the SpineShiver Blade on the Warpsmith instead. You lose AP2 and 2 pts of strength and one attack, but you will reach initiative 6 which will be useful if you face a Space Marine character.

Also, let's talk about the lack of Objective Secured. Generally, competitive lists are built on Detachments and formations that give Objective Secured because in the world dominated by Maelstrom of War missions, playing the objectives generally make you win. But, I don't have it with my TS and I still win games. It's totally possible to play without it, but it will sometimes force you to either table your opponent or remove him from objectives with brute force. But if you want it with the BL, the legion actually plays quite well with a CAD. Both your Chosen and Terminators are troop choices. Chosen have insane firepower and when joined by Abaddon, they get Prefered Enemy (Space Marines) which will help you in most games since Space Marines of all kind are super popular (and you have a Space Wolf friend if I remember well). It's a good combination with plasma chosen. So, they will hold victory locations and kill everything. If you want them to be hard to remove, you can even give them the MoS and an Icon of Excess. But Objective Secured Terminators are also awesome. You can deepstrike them all over the place and laugh at your enemy pathetic attempts to remove them from objectives. Another option is playing the generic Black Crusade detachment (availlable to all CSMs) and use the Chaos Warband instead of the Black Legion one. You gain Objective Secured on everything in the formation, but you will have to field two CSM squads instead of Chosen. So there is a trade off here. So here are your options.

I swear I must be blind, Where is this Black Crusade detachment? Am i just missing it? Also Obj Sec terminators sounds like some CSM Deathwing.....ideas ideas....
Thank you for the help Kov and Salamander. I appreciate the time you two took to answer some of my questions and look at my clearly highly competitive list. I shall try and make some revisions and post the updated list tomorrow after my test.


I hope this will help you making your decisions and tweaking your lists.
The Stars Await, Let us now wander together.

Well then, this is rather entertaining
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:04 pm

The black crusade detachment is the first non forgeworld decurion for chaos space marines, it came out in the traitors hate chaos supplement along with a host of new formations and 4 "new" psychic disciplines and new vehicle squadron rules for predators and vindicators.
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by Kovlovsky » Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:33 pm

SweetSorrow wrote: Something along those lines. Several of them seem pretty cool so I am trying to try many of them out. I am trying to give them all a solid try but so far it has been really hard to find one that really calls to me more than others. A problem that is half the reason I have a bunch of little warbands of various factions. I do need to stop painting so much Flawless Host though, getting tired of the Guard player giving me crap since they don't exist apparently anymore. This guy will actually be brought up again later. Must say I am jealous that you found the TS so quick, their Egyptian is really cool and I am happy others are not having the same pain I am in trying to find one.
You mean these guys: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Flawless_Host? As far as I know, they still exist. I think there is a confusion because there is also an Emperor's Children warband that was called the same thing and was decimated. I don't think they are the same warband since the other Flawless Host is a Renegade Chapter. There might be some info in the CSM codex. If you have a lot of Flawless Host guys, it sounds pretty much Emperor's Children Legion to me, but your initial post said that you had dropped them as a potential choice, so I don't know.

Yeah, when I saw a drawn TS sorcerer in the first 3rd edition codex (1999), I found him to be super cool and read the fluff. I just loved the faustian bargain the TS did and their tragic fall. Initially, the only miniatures for them was a single metal rubric marine from the 2nd edition and Ahriman. When the second 3rd edition book was released ine 2002 I believe (the famed and beloved 3.5th edition codex), they released the now out of production rubric upgrade kit sold in a box with the needed CSM bits. It completely confirmed my choice and I've not changed my mind since then. It just happened.
Well, the Chaos Lord could stand to shave a few points. My problem is i was drawing a blank on where the 10 points where better spent so decided to add it on to get the whole 2 for the price of 1 per detachment bonuses. The Familiar is actually a by-product of a certain smuck + Organizer that wants WYSWIG in which my only Terminator Lord has a combat familiar modelled on his base. So barring purchasing a new Lord I have no alternatives at the time. I did not think the 2 str 4 ap - attack were thatttt bad though. Familiar was definitely better in the Old codex though :(
That's kind of excessive to force someone to bring a Combat Familliar just because there is a little monster carrying a sword on the base. It's just a decoration. I would say that the organiser is a WYSWIG nazi really. ;) But in all case, this isn't an outright bad upgrade. It's just a little superfluous. The attacks have no AP by the way, not AP4.
I did not see in the detachment where it said I could grab Chosen over Chaos Space Marine squads as part of its min requirement. I must have over-looked in on accident. Not sure where I would find the points to make the swap unless i started just reduced my body count. I could do the change, just would need to find the points and make sure I won;t be yelled at for proxying in my Dark Angels and Sternguard for Chosen
Check the Black Legion Warband formation. You have to two of either CSMs or Chose. I can't tell you the page right now because I don't have the book with me. As for finding the points, it might be not practical in this particular list. If you could field one squad of Chosen that would be certainly great, but it's not absolutely vital either in a casual list. The easiest way would be to remove the Land Raider and replace it by another Predator considering that you don't use it to carry your warlord. Another option would be cutting the Eye of the Night. It might be enough to make room for Chosen. Note that a lot of people min/max their Chosen and bring only 6 with 5 special weapons and 1 combi-weapon on the champion. The disadvantage is that if they start losing guys, your firepower goes down really quick, but it's a lot cheaper than bringing 10. If you lack the models and have some money for miniatures, Evil Craft which I linked earlier has great CSM and Chosen models that both would make great Chosen if you're serious about it.
I have some kitbashed AC Havocs but those are literally all the havocs i own bar my one squad of the aforementioned havocs of....erhm...poor visual quality....I kind of like dreadnoughts in general but I would rather get a better feel for what the Legion does over my personal tastes first then modify it later.
That is wise. :)

Same thing as the deal with the GoM got to the end of making my list and had a few points left so kind of just Eh'd it.I know, the worst way to make lists. But I have never been the best at making competitive or strong lists. Heck before I moved my LGS knew me as the guy that ran possessed lists in 4ed cause I just loved my little deamon possessed traitors.
I almost never make list for competitiveness. I just try to make all corners lists that can deal with about anything. Competitive lists are incredibly boring to me and TS ones actually only field Magnus as a typical TS model. The rest are Daemon Princes and Tzeentch daemons sadly. In general, before adding upgrades, you should ask yourself if it will play a significant role or not in the battle. By example, adding a combi-bolter to a Vindicator or Predator can protect it from a Weapon Destroy result, but on a Rhino, it does nothing. In that particular list, if you have removed all these little things that don't do much like the BoM and the Combat Familliar on your warlord and the combi-bolters on the Rhinos, you could have added 2 combi-weapons on your squad leaders by example. A combi-melta would particularly nice on the bike champion by example, especially that you have a Lightning Claw on him and you don't get gain +1 attack from your bolt pistol in that case. Just go for the essential. However, Dozer Blades are great. I often regret it for not taking them systematically.
Oh. I swear my CSM codex was just a misprint then. I was having so many ??? at it looking at it because it did not say in his equipment that he had a power axe. Just a bolt pistol and the mechatendrils so i assumed he just had a CCW. I can make the adjustment so I am not being illegal, i dont want to break the rules. Eye of Night was just because I wanted an artefact and it seemed nifty. No real reason behind it so it can go to then.
Lol don't worry! You actually made your Warpsmith worse by giving him a power sword lol. It's strange that he doesn't have a power axe in your book. Have you looked in the army list toward the end of the book? You know, the place with the possible upgrades and the point costs for each model.
I swear I must be blind, Where is this Black Crusade detachment? Am i just missing it? Also Obj Sec terminators sounds like some CSM Deathwing.....ideas ideas....
Thank you for the help Kov and Salamander. I appreciate the time you two took to answer some of my questions and look at my clearly highly competitive list. I shall try and make some revisions and post the updated list tomorrow after my test.
Nah, like Salamander has said, it's from the Traitor's Hate book. Personally, unless you are adamant on bringing a renegade chapter instead of a legion, I wouldn't buy it. You are only missing the Chaos knights rules and the decurion which is nice, but why not using your legion's one instead? Anyway, if you want to try it, the rules for the decurion are simple and easily found on internet. The formations that can be included in it are the ones that are in your Traitor Legions book that aren't specific to any legion. So, even if you want to try it, don't buy Traitor's Hate.
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by SweetSorrow » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:23 pm

So, It just occurred to me that despite even my tendency to lose my train of thought, it should of occurred to me that even if the axe was not in his wargear the whole "May replace his Power Axe/Bolt Pistol with a Chaos Artefact" Bit should have given it away....sigh. Damn it Noah. Stop being a goof/clutz

I can see the point about all the little things i added maybe making enough for the chosen, if i take them however I do not want to min/max but to take a proper squad. As for the Land raider it is not removable. The only Chaos Tanks I own are 2 predators, 2 land raiders, and 2 Rhinos. :(
The Evil craft guys look sooo nice. I hate being a broke College student sometimes. Something to strive and look forward too I guess.

Good catch on the familiar and yes, it is kind of annoying but I do not want to press the issue. They already get upset at my Deamon Prince for not having an actual weapon modeled yet being given artefact weapons. No need to upset them further.

You also found the exact warband I was talking about. Them and the Purge drew me in instantly when I picked up the 4ed CSM codex and I just loved them. At the time Since starting out I had old 3rd plagues I had some purge but Flawless Host had always been the stronger pull of the two. Don't get me wrong, I love all my little warbands and such. Just I really like the art style and old lore for some reason. This talk however is about The Legions though, no reminiscing about favorite renegade chapters

Black Legion Detachment - 1847

Black Legion Warband - 1297
Chaos Lord - 192
Terminator Armor, VotLW, MoS, ChainFist, Lightning Claw, SoC, Combat Familiar

Chaos Space Marine - 190
VotLw, 5 guys, 2 Plasma guns, LC, Melta bomb

Chosen Chaos Space Marine - 260
VotLw, 5 guys, 4 Plasma guns, LC, Melta bomb

Chaos Terminator - 214
1 extra Terminator1, 1 chainfist, 1 combi-flamer1, 3 combi- Meltas, VotLw, MoS, Icon of Excess

Chaos Bikers - 100
2 Melta Guns, LC on Champ, melta Bomb

Havocs - 115
VotLw, 4 Autocannons

Rhino - 40
Dozer Blades

Rhino - 40
Dozer Blades

Fist of the Gods - 630
Warpsmith - 145
VotLW, Axe of Blind fury

Chaos Predator - 125
Lascanon Sponsons, Combi-bolter, Dozer Blades

Chaos Predator - 125
Lascanon Sponsons, Combi-bolter. Dozer Blades

Chaos Land Raider - 235
Dozer Blades



New list, better?
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by Kovlovsky » Thu Apr 13, 2017 12:32 am

SweetSorrow wrote:So, It just occurred to me that despite even my tendency to lose my train of thought, it should of occurred to me that even if the axe was not in his wargear the whole "May replace his Power Axe/Bolt Pistol with a Chaos Artefact" Bit should have given it away....sigh. Damn it Noah. Stop being a goof/clutz


Don't be too hard on yourself, I made worse mistakes than that. :D


I can see the point about all the little things i added maybe making enough for the chosen, if i take them however I do not want to min/max but to take a proper squad. As for the Land raider it is not removable. The only Chaos Tanks I own are 2 predators, 2 land raiders, and 2 Rhinos. :(


I prefer having 10 men squads too. It just feels more realistic and it's very useful to have bolter guys to absorb a few losses before losing your heavy armed guys. As for the LR, if your going to field it, I think you should use it as a transport for your terminators. I believe that it's what you did in your newest list.

The Evil craft guys look sooo nice. I hate being a broke College student sometimes. Something to strive and look forward too I guess.


Haha! I'm in the same situation really although I'm a little farther in my education "plan". I don't nearly have enough money to get what I would want. However, I'm considering getting their superb sorcerer though. I would love to get their Chosen, but it won't possible right now as my priority are my TS and my friend wants me to start an army of Bolt Action. So I need to find money for this as well.

Good catch on the familiar and yes, it is kind of annoying but I do not want to press the issue. They already get upset at my Deamon Prince for not having an actual weapon modeled yet being given artefact weapons. No need to upset them further.


Lol! These guys are nuts! The overwhelming majority of Chaos players just model their Daemon Princes in the way they feel look the best and don't bother making them WYSWIG beyond giving them wings and sometimes using the power armor torso. I like following a reasonnable level of WYSWIG like trying to have all my squads having the right guns and weapons, but there is a moment where it just goes too far and it stands in the way of having fun.

You also found the exact warband I was talking about. Them and the Purge drew me in instantly when I picked up the 4ed CSM codex and I just loved them. At the time Since starting out I had old 3rd plagues I had some purge but Flawless Host had always been the stronger pull of the two. Don't get me wrong, I love all my little warbands and such. Just I really like the art style and old lore for some reason. This talk however is about The Legions though, no reminiscing about favorite renegade chapters


Yeah, their colour scheme is really nice. I like the purple flame pattern that they have on them. Since they follow Slaanesh, using the Emperor's Children or Black Legion rules with a Slaanesh theme would be quite fitting.


As for your new list, there are still a few issues unfortunately. The first one is that the Warpsmith loadout is currently illegal. The Axe of Blind Fury is for characters with the Mark of Khorne only. So, you need to give it to him. The second issue is that if you're going to equip him for close combat, you have to find him a squad to join. The only true option in your list would be the terminators, but if you want to put them in one of the Land Raider, you will need to remove one of the terminator so that they all fit. I think the one with the combi-flamer could be removed without problem unless he also have the Chainfist. You will also have to switch their mark to Khorne, but you can also instead take the SpineShiver Blade and put a Mark of Slaanesh or leave unmarked your Warpsmith if you want to keep a Slaanesh theme. It's a good weapon too although it's less powerful. Your Warpsmith being inside the Land Raider will also allow him to fix it if it gets damaged. You can do that when embarked. Also, if you have the points, I think ideally your Warpsmith should get an Aura of Dark Glory if he's holding an artefact. You want to protect him in case he's in a challenge against someone with a powerfist.

Last thing, about your Chosen, I think that ideally you should try to fit a 5th plasma gun there. If you don't find the point, it's not too problematic though. Otherwise, I think your list is pretty fine for casual play. The only "problem" is that your current list doesn't really use the ability from the Speartip detachment of rolling reserve starting turn 1 and chosing that your warlord unit automatically succeed its roll. When you get the new raptor kits, I think it might be an idea to remove the Fist of the Gods and take the Raptor Talon instead. With meltaguns, they will be capable of blowing up enemy tanks anyway and then charging the turn they come out of reserve if the tank somehow survived. It's a pretty fun formation. From what I could gather, you were impressed by the kit (and I understand you, they look really cool). Just one thing however: Warp Talons suck. Build them as Raptors not Warp Talons. They're massively overpriced and don't have frag grenades which pretty much kills off the advantage of having two lightning claws each. Raptors are much superior.
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by SweetSorrow » Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:19 am

Hmm the 5 points I would save on switching the Axe of Blind Fury out for a Spine Shiver blade would give him MoS to go with the lord and his unit. I had already cut a terminator, did i need to cut another. I thought landraiders could hold up to 12?

Points are just being really tight > . <

I just want to get my Chaos some of the new Models as well as get a small Loyalist faction to play and a Xenos for some variety. Not necessarily in that order though. I wish I had people willing to play other games though as I love grabbing new mini and kits and learning new rules. Just well.. need people for that in this hobby.

As for the WYSIWG guy, I think he just is still bitter over the game he and I played where once there were 0 Deamon Princes, at the end there were 4...Thankfully pretty much everyone else is really nice about it. The SW and the Ultramarine player coming to mind. something something Tau player would not know what I took since he blasts it all of the board turn 1 and 2 anyway something something..
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:34 am

Unfortunately land raiders only have a transport capacity of 10, and terminators count for 2 models so to fit the lord into the land raider you'd need a squad of 4 terminators(counting the champion). But if you wanted the warpsmith to go with them you'd need a 4 man squad but then you could also fit a dark apostle or sorcerer in power armor into the land raider as well should you desire. I honestly wouldn't recommend going lower than 4 terminators in that specific squad so you would have the maximum number of ablative wounds for your character(whichever you decide upon)
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by Kovlovsky » Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:03 am

SweetSorrow wrote:Hmm the 5 points I would save on switching the Axe of Blind Fury out for a Spine Shiver blade would give him MoS to go with the lord and his unit. I had already cut a terminator, did i need to cut another. I thought landraiders could hold up to 12?
This would be pretty effective. With that blade, you will get to Initiative 6 so your guy will attack before anything that the Imperium can throw on you. As for the Land Raider, only the loyalist Land Raider Crusader has a transport capacity of 12. The other ones including the Chaos one are limited to 10 unfortunately.
I just want to get my Chaos some of the new Models as well as get a small Loyalist faction to play and a Xenos for some variety. Not necessarily in that order though. I wish I had people willing to play other games though as I love grabbing new mini and kits and learning new rules. Just well.. need people for that in this hobby.
If you find people who wants to try need games and that you like WWII, I warmly recommand Bolt Action. I played a little and I love it. I'm planning to build a Soviet army soon. It's less complex than 40k, but still a fairly immersive game. The miniatures are cheaper too overall. There are also X-Wing and SW Armada that are a lot of fun and really cheap to get into if you love SW. The rules are fairly easy to get into, especially X-Wing (Armada is a bit more complicated and is about the big space ships).
As for the WYSIWG guy, I think he just is still bitter over the game he and I played where once there were 0 Deamon Princes, at the end there were 4...Thankfully pretty much everyone else is really nice about it. The SW and the Ultramarine player coming to mind. something something Tau player would not know what I took since he blasts it all of the board turn 1 and 2 anyway something something..
You've been really lucky! :lol: I never got a daemon prince out of the Chaos Boon Table. I think I got a couple of spawnhood though... :D My characters rarely kill other characters in fact, so rolling on the table as has been pretty rare. It has been FAQed into being everytime one of your character with Champion of Chaos kills another character and not just in challenges, so it might happen to me more often.
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Re: Black Legion Warband

Post by SweetSorrow » Fri Apr 14, 2017 12:10 am

Black Legion Detachment - 1847

Black Legion Warband - 1297
Chaos Lord - 192
Terminator Armor, VotLW, MoS, ChainFist, Lightning Claw, SoC, Combat Familiar

Chaos Space Marine - 190
VotLw, 5 guys, 2 Plasma guns, LC, Melta bomb

Chosen Chaos Space Marine - 260
VotLw, 5 guys, 4 Plasma guns, LC, Melta bomb

Chaos Terminator - 178
1 chainfist, 1 combi-flamer1,2 combi- Meltas, VotLw, MoS, Icon of Excess

Chaos Bikers - 100
2 Melta Guns, LC on Champ,Combi-Melta melta Bomb

Havocs - 115
VotLw, 4 Autocannons

Rhino - 40
Dozer Blades

Rhino - 40
Dozer Blades

Fist of the Gods - 630
Warpsmith - 165
VotLW, SpineShiverblade, MoS, Aura of Dark Glory

Chaos Predator - 125
Lascanon Sponsons, Combi-bolter, Dozer Blades

Chaos Predator - 125
Lascanon Sponsons, Combi-bolter. Dozer Blades

Chaos Land Raider - 235
Dozer Blades
Final edition since the game is tomorrow. How is this D:
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Well then, this is rather entertaining
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