1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

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How competitive is this list?

Tournament ready for any event
0
No votes
Tournament ready for local events
1
20%
Competitive friendly games only
0
No votes
Standard friendly games only
2
40%
Shits and Giggles only
2
40%
 
Total votes: 5

Akaitsuki
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1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Akaitsuki » Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:02 am

Winding down my Daemonkin armies so far I've won every game i've played with them. Albeit in a couple games I had to get crafty and play entirely to the mission rather than my usual 'slaughter them' approach. As an aggressive in your face chop chop style is my favorite I decided to try and build a World Eaters Butcherhorde army list that I'd enjoy playing. Before letting it hit the field I figured i'd get some comments on it and see what the general consensus is on the playability of it.

The plan behind the list is as follows:
I forgo my usual bike lord with claw/fist warlord for a jump pack lightning claw lord. Why? Because i wanted twin lightning claws all over the place and this is my only lord model with them. You'll notice all characters are equipped for challenges, i want to claim as many blessings from the dark gods as possible with this list, lightning claws seem to be the best opition to maximize the damage output in the challenge to give the best chance of winning. I want to run them down and challenge every character. I can do a lot of damage to 3+ saves but 2+ saves are a problem and that's why i have the knight for back up against units that the claws can't tear through. Also as a big distraction if the opponent focuses on killing the knight that means my units will be able to get in assault with little damage.

Comment on the following points
- Would you win on pure brute strength? rulebook mission objectives? both?
- Would you need to list tailor to win or can your standard list take it down?
- What would you find most challenging to deal with in this list, what are you most concerned about?
- How would you rate yourself as a 40k player on a scale of 1-10 (1 being a Novice brand new to the game, 10 international/global tournament winner (top 8))

1850 Pts - Codex: Chaos Space Marines Roster - World Eaters

: World Eaters Butcherhorde (41#, 1521 pts)
1 World Eaters Butcherhorde, 1521 pts
1 Chaos Warband
1 Chaos Lord (Lightning Claw x2; Melta Bombs; Jump Pack; Sigil of Corruption; GoM)
1 Talisman of Burning Blood

4 Chaos Terminators (Lightning Claws (pair) x4)
1 Terminator Champion (GoM; Combi-Bolter; Power Axe)

19 Chaos Space Marines (Close Combat Weapon x19)
1 Aspiring Champion (GoM; Lightning Claw x2)

4 Chaos Space Marines (Close Combat Weapon x4)
1 Aspiring Champion (GoM; Lightning Claw x2)

2 Chaos Bikers (Meltagun x2)
1 Biker Champion (GoM; Lightning Claw x1; Power Fist x1)

4 Havocs (Meltagun x4)
1 Aspiring Champion (GoM; Lightning Claw x2)

1 Heldrake Terror Pack
1 Heldrake (Baleflamer)
1 Heldrake (Baleflamer)

: Forsworn Knight Detachment (1#, 325 pts)
1 Forsworn Knight Detachment [RKn], 325 pts
1 Renegade Knight [RKn]

Total Roster Cost: 1846

Geradox
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Re: 1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Geradox » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:16 pm

My normal list when I know I'm fighting a melee heavy list will prolly be a roll of the dice with the balance going either way. So battling this list is say it could swing either way. If prolly try and get all my guys into combat and try and ignore ur titan if possible.

I am a player who plays for fun but rather skilled
Chaos always, always chaos.

Salamand3rs4Lyfe
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Re: 1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:16 pm

Since chaos terminators come in minimum of 3 it is my personal preference towards having a heavy weapon like a heavy flamer if your going to spend the points to have 5 terminators, otherwise I would give the havocs either autocannons or missile launchers and take chosen with melta in a rhino instead. And honestly I'd put your lord on a bike or take raptors instead of bikers because as it stands your lord will be by himself on the table, and I personally would single him out if I was your opponent, then the knight would be a hindrance.
Armies i collect:
11,115pts csm The Privileged
7,268pts Salamanders
1,200pts gsc Sons of Jormangandr

Akaitsuki
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Re: 1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Akaitsuki » Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:24 am

Thanks for the comments always glad to here other player input.

The list won't be changed however. I'm rather interested in your assessment on what your game plan for defeating it would be, potential exploits and stuff like that. Tactical/Strategical advice is more to my interest rather than list building tips.

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Re: 1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:46 am

Ok let's see, if I was your opponent with my salamanders I'd focus down your warlord for the easy warlord kill him being solo and all. Then I'd use my melta bikes and ravenhawk assault group to focus down your knight while using razorbacks with heavy flamers to whittle down your assault units while staying mobile and taking objectives. While using my devastates with missile launchers to blow your heldrakes out of the sky. Finally I'd use my tactical squads to mop up your bikes and any leftover chaos space marine's. sorry if this came off as more aggressive or mean spirited, was not my intention. I just got off work so I'm a little wore out.
Armies i collect:
11,115pts csm The Privileged
7,268pts Salamanders
1,200pts gsc Sons of Jormangandr

Akaitsuki
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Re: 1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Akaitsuki » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:26 pm

Salamand3rs4Lyfe wrote:Ok let's see, if I was your opponent with my salamanders I'd focus down your warlord for the easy warlord kill him being solo and all. Then I'd use my melta bikes and ravenhawk assault group to focus down your knight while using razorbacks with heavy flamers to whittle down your assault units while staying mobile and taking objectives. While using my devastates with missile launchers to blow your heldrakes out of the sky. Finally I'd use my tactical squads to mop up your bikes and any leftover chaos space marine's. sorry if this came off as more aggressive or mean spirited, was not my intention. I just got off work so I'm a little wore out.
I'm trying to visualize your game plan to see if it has major areas of concerns for my list, and i'm having a bit of difficulty. I want to clear up some things

#1 - In what world are you playing opponents silly enough to have an independent character warlord running solo? I don't mean to sound mean but that first sentence was a shocker, I was puzzled. Having a jump pack on unit doesnt mean you must ONLY join units with jump packs? Is that in the FAQ or something? Any how i think to most players it's obvious that my warlord is joining the nice big blob of 20 marines otherwise what's the point of giving him the relic that lets him AND his unit move an extra 3"? I think that relic alone should be a strong indicator that he isnt going anywhere solo

#2 - Melta bikes need to get really close how do you intend to do so without encountering other units along the way? I havent faced a ravenhawk assault group previously i'm pretty interested what do they do? Perhaps it's something I should be wary of in order not to lose my knight prematurely.

#3 - Razorbacks with flamers would have the same issue as the melta bikes..you need to be close to shoot how do you intend to do so without getting engaged? Flamers have the added issue that they are AP4 and the real damage is done if you get the enemy bunched up. At most you'd be killing 1 marine if targetting my smaller units. Only the big unit will have a better pay off. Of course this is only theoryhammer based on math if you hit 5 marines, wound 3, on a 3+ i should fail 1 save and then my guys assault your tank and it dies to S5 attacks.

#4 - You give your missile launchers the skyfire upgrade normally? Or is that list tailored for my list specifically? Most players (including myself) that i've met do not upgrade missile launchers as it seems like a high point investment for something that is situational (not all players use flyers) unless you know before hand what you'll be facing and thus you prep for it. If you arent giving it skyfire missiles then you'd have extremely low chances of taking out a heldrake and all infantry in your army will be at risk.

#5 - I do think tactical squads can mop up small units of marines with some good rounds of shooting specially if invoking tactical doctrines. However they would do very little against T5 bikes, i know from self experience if you need 5s to wound you are better off looking for a better target. Also keep in mind any tactical squads you have outside of vehicles are vulnerable to the heldrakes

I'd love to have you elaborate more so far the last point seems to be the only valid one. To be wary of potential bolter fire against my smaller units the rest sounds a bit inplausible without risking your own units and being on the losing end of that exchange.

Salamand3rs4Lyfe
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Re: 1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:04 pm

Sorry, my point with your warlord was that there isn't anything else that can really keep pace with him. And I didn't realize that he would be with the csm because I don't have traitor legions so I didn't know what the relic does. And I completely spaced on bikes being t5, for some reason I thought MoN made them t5. The ravenhawk assault group is actually a pretty neat formation, it's a favorite of mine. Yeah now that I reread my post I don't sound as good as I thought I did. I apologize, I had just got off of work and I was t thinking straight.
Armies i collect:
11,115pts csm The Privileged
7,268pts Salamanders
1,200pts gsc Sons of Jormangandr

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Kovlovsky
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Re: 1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Kovlovsky » Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:05 pm

Akaitsuki wrote: #1 - In what world are you playing opponents silly enough to have an independent character warlord running solo? I don't mean to sound mean but that first sentence was a shocker, I was puzzled. Having a jump pack on unit doesnt mean you must ONLY join units with jump packs? Is that in the FAQ or something? Any how i think to most players it's obvious that my warlord is joining the nice big blob of 20 marines otherwise what's the point of giving him the relic that lets him AND his unit move an extra 3"? I think that relic alone should be a strong indicator that he isnt going anywhere solo.
Why are you giving a jump pack to your warlord if you are going to put him in a CSM blob? It's a complete waste of 20 points just for maybe separating him from the blob in the course of the game... which might not even happen. And then, if you put him with the bikes, he will reduce their ability to turboboost. You probably should either cut the jump pack altogether or give him a bike (or a Juggernaut) and put him in the bikers. Also, I'm not convinced that twin Lightning Claws is the way to go. You get AP3, Shred and +1 attack. However, most marines players will give their independent characters an artificer or a terminator armor. That means he might just get killed without doing anything during a challenge. A better option would be to take the Axe of Blind Fury. You will most likely wound on 2s which means Shred isn't necessary and having a lot more attacks with AP2 on initiative. The loss of 1 pt of WS isn't a big deal. Also, your aspiring champion in the havoc squad waste a lot of points having 2 lightning claws. He should have at least a combi-melta. You can keep one power weapon for self-defence, but it's not useful to make him super good at challenges.

I also think that terminators are better served by having a majority of AP2 weapons and maybe a couple of single lightning claws. As soon as you charge through cover, you're hitting at I1 anyway and terminators should be able to fight their equivalents. Also, since you seem to be committed to deepstriking them, combi-weapons are a necessity. Combi-meltas or combi-plasmas are probably your best bet. It's a good thing to have some redundancy in antitank weaponry than not having enough and finding yourself in dire straits.

As for your questions on winning through brute strength, vs winning through objectives, I feel that trying to win by brute strength is a huge bargain, especially with a CC army. Eldars and Tau have so much shooting on nimble platforms that they can pretty much shoot you out of the board without risking much return fire. In a close combat army, you need to cross the map and get successful charges and then defeating the units in front of you while having suffered losses against the shooting. Granted that the World Eaters are now able to at least be quite close the enemy turn 1 and maybe even getting a first turn charge, it's really risky. Completely ignoring objectives can earn you some specular victories, but also shameful defeats. It can also lead you having pretty much tabled your opponent only to lose because the enemy did pursue his objectives and you didn't and seeing yourself losing because of the points. The tournament scene isn't currently dominated by very mobile and shooty armies for nothing. It's because they can control the board quickly with objective secured troops while being tough to reach. So ignoring the objectives is pretty dangerous in Maelstrom of War missions.
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Akaitsuki
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Re: 1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Akaitsuki » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:12 am

I agree the jump pack is a tad ineffective unless i mean to split him later in the game as you said which is an option i am leaving open to myself for versatility. However the jump pack also allows re-roll charge range not too sure if the formation grants this ability as I am still trying to learn the many many abilities that this detachment provides. But re-roll charge range is well worth 20 pts

I also agree with you that i can't fight an enemy warlord 1 on 1, however I can certainly take out sergeants and other characters with relative ease which is what I should be hunting with this guy. The knight is there for the sole purpose of taking out these other characters or units that the rest of my army would struggle against. Plus if we are being honest here, chaos ICs are usually at a disadvantage when fighting the equivalents of other armies. The Chaos codex is underpowered sadly

The model i'm using comes with twin lightning claws and thats what i intend to use though I very much agree axe of blind fury is awesome. I am not a fan of 'count as'. Terminators wont be deep striking this detachment gives my army a boost to mobility which i intend to use, i don't think i ever claimed that i would be deep striking the terminators but it IS an option. I like options. For the record the champion in the terminator unit does have ap 2 and again i wouldnt face terminators with these guys they can't win that fight but the knight sure can.

Good points on the rest of your comment I will make note of that and take a proactively balanced approach of putting pressure via potential assault while also being mindful to not give up too many objectives. For the record the thread didn't ask 'how do i make this list more competitive' i could easily do that on my own I'm, the rating is simply to see where others place it in terms of power level and i'm more interested in the tactical/strategic points that can be made against it as it increases my awareness of the flaws, perhaps there are things I missed in my game plan.

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Re: 1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Arnathos » Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:53 am

Lightning claws are bad, m'kay?


Dual lightning claws on champions means you are paying close to 55 points for 1 of them and terminators don't have 'nades, plus axes are only 2% less likely to wound for World eaters, lose 1 attack out of 5 on the charge but you get AP2 and the initiative.

Just my experience running chaos for the last 5 years.
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Akaitsuki
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Re: 1850 - World Eaters - Rate my list

Post by Akaitsuki » Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:03 am

I finally got a chance to play this list on Thrusday. Brought my orks, world eaters and grey knights out to play a game of each. Much fun was had, I went home 2-1 with only the Grey Knights taking a major L (nearly tabled) after Guilliman bitched out from a fight with Kaldor Draigo.

I honestly expected to perform fairly poorly with this World Eaters list but Khorne said NOT TODAY! To start off I got first turn. The mission was a simple Emperors Will so my goal was to CHAAAAARGE!!! Blood for the Blood GOD!!!

And so I did, I got some decent rolls from being Blood Mad. Then some decent moves forward but the opponent had out deployed me (I deployed first) so I was making up some distance to the other side of the table.

No first turn charges for Khorne sadly....it was dismaying but I tried to make the best of it.

The enemy army was a Iron Hands detachment using Pinion Company for some really nasty ignores cover on devastators, coupled with an Imperial Knight and a librarius conclave that rolled crappy powers in an attempt to get veil of time. Our knights squared off against eachother on turn 1 about 15" away from eachother my opponent using his as a deterrent against mine charging in. The terminators got grav crushed easily with ignores cover it was no contest (i had them in ruins with night fighting) opponent got first blood.

The iron hands captain charged in against my large unit of chaos space marines. I suppose he thought he'd break them in assault...big big mistake! COUNTER-ATTACK FOR THE BLOOD GOD! That was fun after suffering just one wound my bolt pistol + ccw csm came in with bucket loads of attacks. Skulls for the Skull Throne saw my chaos champion taking one for the team so that the chaos lord could go to town on the command squad bikers. I won combat, they fled the battle after only killing the champion and another model.

Turn 2 the world eaters were primed and ready to launch massive assaults everywhere and i do mean everywhere! Everything within reach got assaulted, I foolishly broke off the chaos lord in an attempt to take care of the pesky devastators whom got a bunch of 6s overwatch and killed him before he chopped them up.

The knights went face to face after i charged in and what a battle it was! Thansk to the stupid preferred enemy rule in the detachment my opponent got to re-roll his attacks and it was an instant DOUBLE K.O of titanic proportions. Both knights blew up but took nothing down with them except their shame.

CHAMPIONS OF CHAOS! This rule combined with FAVORED SCIONS created a total monster out of my last surviving Biker Champion with claw/power fist. I never even bothered using the power fist, with an initiative boost I was running around chopping up every character around. He killed off 3 characters through out the game getting the following boons
+1 Initiative
Shrouded (2+ jink save woot!)
+ 1 attack
Instant Death melee attacks (no fnp rolls iron hands)

He basically wrecked everything he engaged. Some of my other champions also got some nice boons after winning challenges and wrecking a lot of marines.

Lightning Claws really put in work everywhere they went except for captain smashface nobody was safe.

Hatred really runs deep this rule combined with the bucket loads of attacks every marine put out (4 each on the charge) was absolutely debasting to every unit they engaged. Vehicles also got crushed easily with Furious Charge kicking in.

Fearless was uber useful keeping me going and going despite any losses specially with the command squad and captain smashface whom got held up by the large blob of CSM until they killed them all on their own.

Ultimately the game was really bloody, lots of cool fights, lots and lots of boons Favored Scions is one of my favorite new rules it goes a looooooooong way to mitigate a table that I dreaded rolling on before.

But mostly I'm just real happy that I got to run CSM with the titular model hitting the field and taking names or rather skulls...for the...skull throne.

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