Random Daemon thoughts on Wrath of Magnus rules

The ideal discussion board for all traitors, heretics, and the warp-spawned Daemons.
Locked
User avatar
Whitewing
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 903
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:09 am
Location: Behind You

Random Daemon thoughts on Wrath of Magnus rules

Post by Whitewing » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:22 am

Ahoyhoy! I've been on a hiatus from the hobby for a little while, as the folk in my area became somewhat cold towards 40k due to a combination of odd design choices from GW, increased prices making the hobby untenable, and local tournaments becoming more and more lackluster in their organisation.

In short, I got a bit burned out. It happens sometimes when you've been in a hobby for 23 years, I always come back, I love this stuff too much to stay away :D

What ended up making me want to take a break was the incredibly disappointing Demonic Incursion detachment rules. As some of you know, I'm a big Daemons fan, and when they released our own detachment made up of formations with sweet special rules I couldn't wait to give it a go!

But the whole thing is a mess. Utterly bloated, requiring ridiculous numbers of troops to field every formation, requiring a pair of the same bloated formations in order to actually BE a detachment at all, it made me incredibly depressed and dismissive of what was otherwise a quite welcome new set of rules for Chaos Daemons (considering they literally replaced a bunch of rules from the Codex, it really should probably have been a new codex in its own right, but that's a whole other debate.).

Last week I picked up Wrath of Magnus, looooong after its release, because I was curious about the new Tzeentch Daemons rules. Aside from being waaaaay too expensive for what is effectively an addon to an addon to an old codex, this new update to the Tzeentch side of Chaos Daemons is actually amazing! It fixes a LOT of problems I had with Tzeentch in 7th edition, adds back in rules they took out of the game back in 6th Ed, gives you a new detachment made up of actually fieldable formations and has a real thematic feel to it all. My only gripe with it is that there is no new Pink Horror based formation, instead using the incredibly aggravating "Take exactly 9 units of Horrors/Flamers/Exalted Flamers" formation from Curse of the Wulfen rather than replacing it with a new "Take 3-9 units" formation like they clearly should have.

A side note on the "Take exactly this many units" formations: Yes, they are incredibly thematic, what with being the number of their patron god and all, but it makes some armies basically unfieldable. Try making any kind of Demonic Incursion army that isn't ludicrously spammy. I'll wait.

BUT! Enough about things I dislike, let's talk a bit about the things Wrath of Magnus (WoM from here on out, I'm tired of typing that) got absolutely right!

Firstly, Horrors in general, and Pink Horrors specifically. While I find it odd from an editing perspective that they chose to put the explanation for the Pink Horrors "Split" special rule under Blue Horrors, and the Blue rule "Split Again" under the Brimstone Horrors, the splitting mechanic is wonderful to see returned to Horrors once again. The fact that it means that a unit of Pink Horrors can generate several new units of Blue and Brimstone Horrors, all of whom are Psykers, is incredibly strong, BUT! it is somewhat balanced by a change this supplement makes to Pink Horrors.

In the past, Pink Horrors originally had access to only Change spells from the CD codex. With the advent of 7th edition, ALL CD Psykers got access to Malefic Daemonology, which led to the overpowered and boring to play both with and against Summoning armies, where a player could use his army of Psykers to summon more Horrors that could themselves summon more units. It was a bad move and not fun. But WoM steps in and simply says that Horrors of all types only generate powers from Change, end of story. Now Horrors cannot be used to summon more units, restricting that power to Heralds, Daemon Princes and Lords of Change, which fits far better thematically and sets Horrors back to their fire-flinging roots.

As for the formations in the book, I've already mentioned how much I like the scaling size of the formations (3-9), but special mention needs to be added for the Pandemoniad detachment. While it's a little limited on options when it comes to fielding it (You MUST take either the Warpflame host and its 9 units, or restrict yourself to the Lorestealer Host and have no Pink Horrors in the army and also forced to take the Blue Scribes) there is still a wealth of options available in structuring your army however you want. Pet Peeve here: You can't field Burning Chariots at all without taking the Burning Skyhost, another formation requiring 9 units. I don't want to have to spend like 700 points to be able to access one of my units, GW. It's silly.

Army composition, special rules, new wargear/psychic powers/warlord traits/warpstorm it all looks like amazing fun, and it's inspired me to start a new army for the first time in years (Yeah I already have a tzeentch Daemon army which is like, 2500 points... but the new one will be all Blue and Brimstone Horrors and the new Fateweaver/Lord of Change, new models means new army) so as an old, died in the wool Daemon player... Wrath of Magnus makes me happy, here's hoping we get 3 more! Or, like... a new codex that rolls these kinds of rules into a single, easily carried book that doesn't require me to carry a Codex, 2 supplementary books that are basically a novel and 2 codexes EACH (that's the equivalent of 7 books total, math), AND a printout of the FAQ's to every tournament. That would be nice.

FINAL THOUGHT: Isn't it weird how you don't want Fateweaver to be your Warlord in a Pandemoniad? His forced Warlord Trait allows you to reroll the Warp Storm, which your army doesn't use (You use the Tzeentchian Warp Storm, a different rule altogether) AND you already have a reroll for it naturally baked into the formation. Very odd.
Check out my Chaos Daemons Tactica! I'm super proud of it :D

Cecil824
Silver Vault Member
Posts: 77
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 12:09 am

Re: Random Daemon thoughts on Wrath of Magnus rules

Post by Cecil824 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 12:02 am

I agree there are several issues with the Daemon's updated rules but I believe there's a few gems sprinkled among the dust. (See what I did there? All is dust.. eh? eh? Ahem.) So for example the Nurgle Core detachment allows for fielding either Nurglings or Plaguebearers. Nurglings are grossly cheap, and it is easy to max out their 7 required. This frees you up for all of the auxillary add ons which are pretty dang good. Soul Grinders provide some nice bonus' for a pretty spectacular unit. Going small points? Fury out and call it good. Being able to shift on the Chaos table is HUGE in game. I was fortunate and had some 4+ invuls for my dirt cheap units for a few turns. No overwatch allowed? Take that Tau.

The Relics in particular added so many more options in game for HQ choices in my opinion. Really expanded on the ol' Demon's codex.

One overall theme I enjoyed was that no matter which formation you chose, its thematic. Problem is the big focus on the numbers game. 70 Plaguebearers for the true value of the Nurgle core formation, for example, is just plain stinky. The mono-unit focus is pretty bland.

Still..all in all a welcome addition! And man, welcome back!
Heroes become legends. Legends become myths. Myths become fantasy.

User avatar
psychoticbuzzsaw
MiniWarGaming Zealot
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:03 pm

Re: Random Daemon thoughts on Wrath of Magnus rules

Post by psychoticbuzzsaw » Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:07 pm

I feel the pain when it comes to the trend in requirements now, since you have to take the gods sacred number to get the full and better bonus'. Seven isn't as bad but still its tough (i play CSM not Daemons) to try to get more units you want to take versus the ones you have too just to have a fun army. The formations need to be reigned in a little, especially for Daemons sine you have to take 10 man or more units. I got burned out myself for over 2 years back around 5ths launch and right after the launch of 7th for Fantasy. It wasnt the first time or the last im sure, it happens I've been playing either fantasy or 40k since 93. I'm glad your back though, for some reason you cant quit lol they got ya XD.

User avatar
Whitewing
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 903
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:09 am
Location: Behind You

Re: Random Daemon thoughts on Wrath of Magnus rules

Post by Whitewing » Tue Mar 28, 2017 3:56 pm

psychoticbuzzsaw wrote:I feel the pain when it comes to the trend in requirements now, since you have to take the gods sacred number to get the full and better bonus'. Seven isn't as bad but still its tough (i play CSM not Daemons) to try to get more units you want to take versus the ones you have too just to have a fun army. The formations need to be reigned in a little, especially for Daemons sine you have to take 10 man or more units. I got burned out myself for over 2 years back around 5ths launch and right after the launch of 7th for Fantasy. It wasnt the first time or the last im sure, it happens I've been playing either fantasy or 40k since 93. I'm glad your back though, for some reason you cant quit lol they got ya XD.
Ayy, Buzzsaw! How're you doing, we haven't chatted (read: argued) in the forums in ages, glad to hear from you again! And nope, I sure can't get out now, I have far too big a collection of ludicrous amounts of dollars worth of plastic figurines in my "display wardrobe". Plus I have a reputation to maintain, if I don't play and discuss Chaos Daemons, who will?
Check out my Chaos Daemons Tactica! I'm super proud of it :D

User avatar
psychoticbuzzsaw
MiniWarGaming Zealot
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:03 pm

Re: Random Daemon thoughts on Wrath of Magnus rules

Post by psychoticbuzzsaw » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:14 pm

Whats up? I have been busy working and preparing for 8th edition, I messed around with AoS and its pretty fun so im not as scared of 8th. lol

User avatar
Whitewing
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 903
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:09 am
Location: Behind You

Re: Random Daemon thoughts on Wrath of Magnus rules

Post by Whitewing » Tue Apr 25, 2017 11:59 pm

psychoticbuzzsaw wrote:Whats up? I have been busy working and preparing for 8th edition, I messed around with AoS and its pretty fun so im not as scared of 8th. lol
Haha, I'm not scared for 8th at all right now, everything I've seen looks like it's either a great change or potentially a great change, we need more info but so far, so good!
Check out my Chaos Daemons Tactica! I'm super proud of it :D

User avatar
psychoticbuzzsaw
MiniWarGaming Zealot
Posts: 331
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 6:03 pm

Re: Random Daemon thoughts on Wrath of Magnus rules

Post by psychoticbuzzsaw » Wed Apr 26, 2017 3:03 pm

Have you seen the preview for the profiles yet? Dreads at, least Space Marine version has T7 with 8 wounds!!! And they called me crazy for wanting so many Chaos Dreads lol Man idk about anyone else but I am probably going to play and pay more than when I was a kid. lol

User avatar
Whitewing
MiniWarGaming Crazed Zealot
Posts: 903
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:09 am
Location: Behind You

Re: Random Daemon thoughts on Wrath of Magnus rules

Post by Whitewing » Wed Apr 26, 2017 11:27 pm

psychoticbuzzsaw wrote:Have you seen the preview for the profiles yet? Dreads at, least Space Marine version has T7 with 8 wounds!!! And they called me crazy for wanting so many Chaos Dreads lol Man idk about anyone else but I am probably going to play and pay more than when I was a kid. lol
I have a 1000 point army of CSM, right now, on my shelf, that is a Warpsmith, two squads of Cultists, 3 Helbrutes and 3 Maulerfiends. It's actually surprisingly effective, my opponents don't know what to blow up first, so SOMETHING makes it to their lines.
Check out my Chaos Daemons Tactica! I'm super proud of it :D

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest