I have returned and seek advice

The ideal discussion board for all traitors, heretics, and the warp-spawned Daemons.
Locked
User avatar
SweetSorrow
MiniWarGaming Grand Marshall
Posts: 4199
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:46 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesHas Completed 25 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Cincinnati
Contact:

I have returned and seek advice

Post by SweetSorrow » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:57 pm

So after a very long hiatus I am coming back to the hobby and looking for some help on rebooting my CSM till i figure out what exactly I am aiming for with this edition and my 40k goals. Not really sure where all my models are or ended up between my moves but still have my chaos.

First off, What is traitor legions, Khorne Deamonkin, crimson slaughter? Are the box sets for chaos any good? some general things. Are plague marines still go to? Or with the new 1k sons kit did GW make them super strong to sell? Are my night lords still worth anything? Word bearers?

So other than the lore suggestions guess I should ask for some help with the chaos models i have available to game with at the moment as I will probably be playing a game this weekend.
I have 3 deamon princes
2 sorcers
a Lord of...nearly every variety or armament you can think off...
Huron
Apostle

10 cultists
20 possessed
5 bikers
40 Night lord Marines. pretty much all plasma options even pistol with plasma swords
10 red corsairs. Plasma Gun, Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol/LC
25 Bloodletters
5 Chaos terminators with a mess of equipment
3 Obliterators
10 havocs 8 with AC
2 Rhinos
Land raider
Predator
2 Hellbrutes
5 raptors
A handful of word Bearers
16 Plague marines
10 Thousand Sons

Any advice appreciated!
The Stars Await, Let us now wander together.

Well then, this is rather entertaining
Chaos Marines - 5,000
IIIIIIIIII

User avatar
Kovlovsky
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 5758
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:40 pm
Location: Québec

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by Kovlovsky » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:46 am

SweetSorrow wrote:So after a very long hiatus I am coming back to the hobby and looking for some help on rebooting my CSM till i figure out what exactly I am aiming for with this edition and my 40k goals. Not really sure where all my models are or ended up between my moves but still have my chaos.


You come at a great time to start again with Chaos. There is a renewal going on with the Thousand Sons having gotten a full new miniatures line and the Death Guard getting updated too. We also got an awesome book recently.

SweetSorrow wrote:First off, What is traitor legions, Khorne Deamonkin, crimson slaughter? Are the box sets for chaos any good? some general things.


The Traitor Legions book is, in short, a come back to the 3.5 edition book where you could play each individual legion with special rules. We basically got powerful legion rules for each of them. This book contains them all. It's a must buy really. You also get most of the recently introduced formations for the army and the new Chaos psychic disciplines, most of them being very powerful.

Khorne Daemonkins are sects of Khorne Beserkers that actually worship Khorne daemons. They are basically a combined army made of Khorne CSMs and Khorne Daemons. They have a nice mechanic that makes you win Blood Tithe points each time you destroy an enemy unit, kill an enemy character in challenge, get one of your own unit destroyed or one of your character killed. You can then use your points at the start of your turn to either gain an army wide special rule or invoking more daemons on the board. It's a fun and fluffy army that is quite competitive. Their weakness is that they have a diminished access to CSM units and don't have many shooting options. They get unique artefacts though. It's a full codex, so they are considered as being an army independent of the CSMs and Daemons even if they share units with these two codices.

The Crimson Slaughter is a renegade Space Marines chapter. It used to be close to the Inquisition, but one day, they were sent on a planet to monitor a supposed Tzeentch Cult, but it was an illusion probably brought by Tzeentch and they massacred innocents. They were driven insane by the cries of the murdered that played all the time in their heads and they embraced Chaos in their despair and self-hatred (it's from memory, I might be slightly wrong). They get their own formations, artefacts and some special rules. Their artefacts are quite impressive overall, but they have lost some attractiveness on the long run. They're still pretty good though.

Are plague marines still go to? Or with the new 1k sons kit did GW make them super strong to sell? Are my night lords still worth anything? Word bearers?


The Thousand Sons, which are my army since 2001, are probably more powerful than ever, but the new book didn't change the cost of the Rubric Marines overall which is a major disappointment. Instead GW opted to give you more for the price and we get to take a S5 AP3 Heavy 4 Rending Assault Cannon instead. We also get Exalted Sorcerers which are Sorcerers with a stat line close to Chaos Lords and with the ability to select the Divination and Telekinesis disciplines. Divination makes us hugely more powerful because there is a power that allows your guns to ignore cover which is very powerful with AP3 bolters. We also get new terminators with Mastery Level 2 psyker in them, Tzaangors which are Tzeentch Beastmen and are mostly more powerful Cultists and finally Magnus the Red himself. He's got a powerful statline and is the single most powerful psyker in the game and a true psychic vulcan cannon... But he's quite expensive. We also got a whole bunch of formations which are mostly great. So TS are fun to play and effective, but they're not super competitive either. However, there are tournament winning lists centred around Magnus as he's really an unstoppable beast.

The Death Guard rules made them even more powerful. They're the survivability kings in Chaos although the Emperor's Children aren,t too far, but with more firepower. The DG is one of the most powerful legion. It's still a great choice. It's rumored that they will get their primarch and the new models are great.

The Word Bearers got the less powerful rules I'm afraid, but they,re great at summoning daemons. If you want to do a summoning list, they're the way to go.

So other than the lore suggestions guess I should ask for some help with the chaos models i have available to game with at the moment as I will probably be playing a game this weekend.
I have 3 deamon princes
2 sorcers
a Lord of...nearly every variety or armament you can think off...
Huron
Apostle

10 cultists
20 possessed
5 bikers
40 Night lord Marines. pretty much all plasma options even pistol with plasma swords
10 red corsairs. Plasma Gun, Melta Gun, Plasma Pistol/LC
25 Bloodletters
5 Chaos terminators with a mess of equipment
3 Obliterators
10 havocs 8 with AC
2 Rhinos
Land raider
Predator
2 Hellbrutes
5 raptors
A handful of word Bearers
16 Plague marines
10 Thousand Sons

Any advice appreciated!
I don't have the time to make a in-depth commentary of all your stuff tonight, but everything there is playable, but some of it need a formation to really shine. I would advise you to try your hand with a list or two and then posting it. It will be easier to comment the units inside a list than doing it abstractly.

Good luck about your game!
Forum's NKVD Cpt. Kovlovsky

40k : 3945 points of Thousand Sons
380 pts of Tzeentch Daemons of Chaos

Thousand Sons WiP : http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/view ... 6&t=114889

Fantasy : OnG

Salamand3rs4Lyfe
MiniWarGaming Zealot
Posts: 269
Joined: Thu May 26, 2016 12:39 pm

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:51 am

Actually kov if I'm not mistaken(and I don't have the book right in front of me right now) they were not close to the inquisition(your thinking the scourged) and the ghostly entities are khornate in origin. I do know that the voices drove them insane and now they massacre countless in the hopes that the voices will be silenced forever. I also know that they have a feud with the dark angels
Armies i collect:
11,115pts csm The Privileged
7,268pts Salamanders
1,200pts gsc Sons of Jormangandr

Geradox
MiniWarGaming Veteran
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:31 pm
Contact:

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by Geradox » Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:13 am

Also 8th edition is coming rigjtbaround the corneri
Chaos always, always chaos.

User avatar
SweetSorrow
MiniWarGaming Grand Marshall
Posts: 4199
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:46 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesHas Completed 25 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Cincinnati
Contact:

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by SweetSorrow » Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:16 am

We played a small friendly game of my friends Tau versus my Chaos. Board could have been a bit better coverwise but that was mostly my fault for not adding nearly enough to it. >.<
We played a mission where there were 6 objectives and on turns 2 and 4 a random one was removed. Usual FB, StW, Linebreaker applied.

He had something like:
Etheral
Firewarriors
Firewarriors
Riptide
Riptide
I am not entirely sure on upgrades

I took the following,

Chaos Lord - 190
Veterans of the Long War, Mark of Khorne, Juggernaut, Axe of blind fury, Aura of dark glory, Gift of mutation

Chaos Space Marines - 195
10 Man, aspiring champion with Lightning claw, 2 Plasma Guns, Veterans of the Long war

Chaos Space Marine squad - 205
10 Man, aspiring champion with Powerfist, 2 Plasma Guns, Veterans of the Long war

Chaos Bikes - 105
3 bikers, 2 melta-guns, power sword on champ

Chaos Bikes - 90
3 bikers, 2 melta-guns

Obliterator - 140
2 man

Rhino - 35
Rhino - 35
995


I uh, well. Turn 3 wasn't on the board anymore. He completely wiped my army out by the end of turn his third shooting phase as his firewarriors finished off my Lord as he charged their 6 remaining men with overwatch. :(
The Stars Await, Let us now wander together.

Well then, this is rather entertaining
Chaos Marines - 5,000
IIIIIIIIII

User avatar
Kovlovsky
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 5758
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:40 pm
Location: Québec

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by Kovlovsky » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:37 pm

Your list was reasonnably powerful, but the Tau are actually one of the two most powerful armies in the game, so don't let yourself be discouraged by losing to them.
Forum's NKVD Cpt. Kovlovsky

40k : 3945 points of Thousand Sons
380 pts of Tzeentch Daemons of Chaos

Thousand Sons WiP : http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/view ... 6&t=114889

Fantasy : OnG

User avatar
SweetSorrow
MiniWarGaming Grand Marshall
Posts: 4199
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:46 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesHas Completed 25 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Cincinnati
Contact:

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by SweetSorrow » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:13 pm

Secondary game did not go much better. Wasn't tabled atleast since i actually made some saves this time. Just did lost objective wise 4-7 since he got FB and Slay the warlord and I never got his Ethereal. ;/

Aside from Traitor Legions, how are the other supplements? Would it be worth picking up Crimson slaughter or KDK in example or just grab traitor legions to start?
The Stars Await, Let us now wander together.

Well then, this is rather entertaining
Chaos Marines - 5,000
IIIIIIIIII

User avatar
Kovlovsky
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 5758
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:40 pm
Location: Québec

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by Kovlovsky » Thu Mar 23, 2017 2:34 pm

SweetSorrow wrote:Secondary game did not go much better. Wasn't tabled atleast since i actually made some saves this time. Just did lost objective wise 4-7 since he got FB and Slay the warlord and I never got his Ethereal. ;/

Aside from Traitor Legions, how are the other supplements? Would it be worth picking up Crimson slaughter or KDK in example or just grab traitor legions to start?
It really depends on the theme you follow for your army really.

First, just to correct something, KDK is a codex. It's a full army like the Space Marines or the Tau or the CSMs. It's not a supplement. A supplement is just a book that adds new things to an existing codex to enrich it or give new way of building that army. The KDK are a good army if you love Khorne, close combat and you want to build an army that heavily uses daemons of Chaos. If you prefer the CSM part of Chaos, they aren't as attractive. They have very little shooting, so that makes them rather inflexible. But they are a lot of fun and they do rather well in competitive environment too.

If you don't want to play one of the original legions, Crimson Slaughter adds an alternative possessed table (The table mostly increase their survivability and their speed instead of their CC prowess), powerful artefacts (some of them being really good like the one which gives access to divination to one sorcerer. The only other way to have access to that is taking a TS Exalted Sorcerer), but I wasn't impressed by their specific formations. They can use the stuff in Traitor's Hate like the Black Crusade detachment though. However, they're a renegade chapter, so they can't take Veterans of the Long War since they're rookies. :mrgreen: However, I feel that the best way to make possessed great is using the Favored of Chaos formation that is availlable to other Chaos Space Marines and the regular possessed table shines in that formation making them killing machines. So, overall I believe the Crimson Slaughter have lost the appeal they had earlier.

So, if I was you, I would think to a theme first. If you find that you love one of the legions in the Traitor Legions book, you can stop there. If you want to play a renegade chapter with special rules or you want access to divination without using Ahriman or an Exalted Sorcerer (the first is restricted to the Thousand Sons legion or unaffiliated warbands, the second can be taken by the Black Legion in addition, but is unavaillable to other legions), Crimson Slaughter might interest you. If you love Khorne and would like to have many Khorne daemons in your army while having fun special rules, KDK might be for you. Note there however that the new World Eaters rules in Traitor's Legions compete very well with KDK and they can pull off first turn charges if you use a certain combination of formations and an artefact, so even if you love Khorne, you don't absolutely need the KDK to play an effective Khorne army.

So, I wouldn't feel pressured to buy another book for now if I was you. Experiment with the legion rules and try things. After a few games, you will start to see what kind of army you want and it will be much easier to choose.
Forum's NKVD Cpt. Kovlovsky

40k : 3945 points of Thousand Sons
380 pts of Tzeentch Daemons of Chaos

Thousand Sons WiP : http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/view ... 6&t=114889

Fantasy : OnG

User avatar
SweetSorrow
MiniWarGaming Grand Marshall
Posts: 4199
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:46 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesHas Completed 25 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Cincinnati
Contact:

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by SweetSorrow » Thu Mar 23, 2017 3:24 pm

So, following the advice I went ahead and ordered the 7th edition rulebook and the Traitor legions supplement. Sorry for the misunderstanding in regards to the KDK book. I figured it was under the CSM bracket. I am half of mind to still get it just because i adore that cover.....

My big problem with it is a love Khorne, Nurgle and him being the 2 i most often revert to even though I paint my warband usually in the Flawless host colors aside from some cults and my Night Lords/Word Bearers. I do prefer Beserkers more than Bloodletters though, but bloodthristers and juggernauts are pretty cool soo if you have any further insights into the codex that would be nice as it is a 50$ book otherwise.

In regards to the Crimson slaughter I feel bad for them if that is the case, seems they are still rather recent and to already be phased out reminds me of some older cases of Codexs being updated right before edition changes. I do wish GW kept more of the boxsets on their site like i see in the stores. Like that one crimson slaughter box at my lgs that I cant find anywhere online.
The Stars Await, Let us now wander together.

Well then, this is rather entertaining
Chaos Marines - 5,000
IIIIIIIIII

Geradox
MiniWarGaming Veteran
Posts: 183
Joined: Fri Nov 20, 2015 3:31 pm
Contact:

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by Geradox » Thu Mar 23, 2017 7:01 pm

Fearless daemons in kdk which is nice.
Chaos always, always chaos.

User avatar
Kovlovsky
Epic MiniWarGaming Poster, 'nuff said
Posts: 5758
Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:40 pm
Location: Québec

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by Kovlovsky » Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:54 pm

Unfortunately for you, I'm a Thousand Sons player from before it was cool, so I don't personally own the KDK book and can't help you much more on that account. But like Geradox just said, their daemons are fearless instead of having daemonic instability which makes them a lot more reliable and is certainly very good. They've got access to Khorne Berserkers too, don't worry. :)

As for Crimson Slaughter, they certainly aren't phased out because their supplement was updated for 7th edition and is still valid and quite decent. The only thing that I wanted to say is that they used to be the better CSMs because their artefacts were so good and their alternative mutation table for their possessed was genuinely superior to the normal CSM one. It's just that the new formation Favored of Chaos is more useful with the older table as it's super offensive in its results and the Chaos legions have catched them with their rules. They are still very playable. Their history isn't very long anyway as they were pretty much created for the sake of the Dark Vengeance 6th edition starter set.
Salamand3rs4Lyfe wrote:Actually kov if I'm not mistaken(and I don't have the book right in front of me right now) they were not close to the inquisition(your thinking the scourged) and the ghostly entities are khornate in origin. I do know that the voices drove them insane and now they massacre countless in the hopes that the voices will be silenced forever. I also know that they have a feud with the dark angels
Sorry, I overlooked your post somehow. You are surely right, they have somewhat similar background stories, so they kind of mixed together in my mind. Sorry about the confusion! Haha!
Forum's NKVD Cpt. Kovlovsky

40k : 3945 points of Thousand Sons
380 pts of Tzeentch Daemons of Chaos

Thousand Sons WiP : http://www.miniwargaming.com/forum/view ... 6&t=114889

Fantasy : OnG

User avatar
SweetSorrow
MiniWarGaming Grand Marshall
Posts: 4199
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 9:46 pm
Ribbons Earned: Has Completed 5 Painting PledgesHas Completed 10 Painting PledgesHas Completed 25 Painting PledgesWon a Painting Deathmatch Side ChallengeCompleted a Painting Deathmatch Side Challenge Entry
Location: Cincinnati
Contact:

Re: I have returned and seek advice

Post by SweetSorrow » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:35 pm

I might just grab them all and bite the bullet about not getting any minis for a bit in favor of buying a ton of books. As for playing Thousand sons before they were cool, a certain Zeruel vs Matt apoc game in 4th edition of thousand sons vs tyranids is actually what got me into the hobby. go to love recommended videos on youtube for Warhammer 40k: Firewarrior guides :D
Well that and the Grek Knights on squad command...I loved those guys.... (Screw you mission 13 > : C)

my only wish is for some of the cult troops to not be so expensive. Or to have free transports or something. Hoping supplements fix that. Mainly saying this as I had a game where someone running all terminators out numbered my plague marine army :shock:
The Stars Await, Let us now wander together.

Well then, this is rather entertaining
Chaos Marines - 5,000
IIIIIIIIII

Locked

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest