Question about detachments: Night Lords

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Salamand3rs4Lyfe
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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:25 am

Kovlovsky wrote:If I had listened to what the competitive players were saying on internet, I would have never played the Thousand Sons (my army since 2001) !
A Kovlovsky not playing thousand sons? I shudder at the thought.

But if you can I'd try to fit the chaos warband and the raptor talon into your list Because you can just tell that gw made the raptor talon for night lords players like yourself.
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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Kovlovsky » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:32 am

Salamand3rs4Lyfe wrote:
Kovlovsky wrote:If I had listened to what the competitive players were saying on internet, I would have never played the Thousand Sons (my army since 2001) !
A Kovlovsky not playing thousand sons? I shudder at the thought.
I do too! :P Funnily enough, I almost played Tyranids back in the 3rd edition. I even got some Tyranid models at my birthday back then! I got a box of the old 2nd edition plastic termagants and some 2nd edition metal gargoyles. But my friend beated me into starting a Tyranid army and decide to play another army. Yet another friend gave me his 1999 Chaos codex and voilà! I got ensnared by the Thousand Sons!
Salamand3rs4Lyfe wrote:But if you can I'd try to fit the chaos warband and the raptor talon into your list Because you can just tell that gw made the raptor talon for night lords players like yourself.
Yeah, the Raptor Talons fits really well with the Night Lords rules. However, I'm not sure if they did a service to the NL by putting the Raptors in the core formations instead in the auxiliary ones. The Chaos Warband is just too good to not be taken and having to field a single spawn to fill your auxiliary requirement is kind of silly. But it would make a fluffy and fun army for sure.
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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Kalidas » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:06 pm

Adeptus007 wrote:
Kalidas wrote:As far as bikes you add them in as part of a a core choice using a chaos warband. Depending on your points you could have a warband AND the raptor talon core (you can have as many core choices as you want I think), then add some spawn as your auxiliary choice, or something else. Princes are good in high point games, if you don't want a psycher Prince, Mark of Khorne is a good way to go, hell even Mark of nurgle for the higher toughness is nice.
You can't run marks when using Night Lords, nor use units where marks are auto equipped
Yeah I know when I said that I meant a Daemon of (fill in here).

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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Adeptus007 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:29 pm

Yeah, the Raptor Talons fits really well with the Night Lords rules. However, I'm not sure if they did a service to the NL by putting the Raptors in the core formations instead in the auxiliary ones. The Chaos Warband is just too good to not be taken and having to field a single spawn to fill your auxiliary requirement is kind of silly. But it would make a fluffy and fun army for sure.[/quote]

I want to run both but I'm not sure how I would fit the daemon prince into the army. And to be honest, the way I'm seeing this army is how I would build it if I was a Night Lord and personally, I don't approve of chaos but they sure as hell make good weapons. I've actually been looking into running the hellforged warpack cause I like the idea of two forgefiends and a helbrute just sounds amazing. That being said I'm very interested in the raptor talon, but I'm not sure if I want to run 15+ raptors/warp talons (well tbh I still don't like warp talons but if they can deep strike and charge I feel like they would make a good suicide unit into middle to upper tier troops). And my other thing is If I just run a CWB and a CAD I can have my daemon prince and link my heavy units into that and have my backup marines and raptors.

Again any tips appreciated and after thinking about it I agree that upgrading the DP is one of the best choices seeing as I plan to make it my warlord (and you don't want a squishy warlord now do u?)
EDIT- I could just run CAD and RapT and I think that would solve my previous problems......

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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Kovlovsky » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:59 pm

Adeptus007 wrote: I want to run both but I'm not sure how I would fit the daemon prince into the army. And to be honest, the way I'm seeing this army is how I would build it if I was a Night Lord and personally, I don't approve of chaos but they sure as hell make good weapons. I've actually been looking into running the hellforged warpack cause I like the idea of two forgefiends and a helbrute just sounds amazing.
It's a rather potent formation since it allows you to use Daemonforge each turn which is pretty great. The 4++ on one of them is also good, especially for an Helbrute since they don't have invulnerable save by default.
Adeptus007 wrote:That being said I'm very interested in the raptor talon, but I'm not sure if I want to run 15+ raptors/warp talons (well tbh I still don't like warp talons but if they can deep strike and charge I feel like they would make a good suicide unit into middle to upper tier troops). And my other thing is If I just run a CWB and a CAD I can have my daemon prince and link my heavy units into that and have my backup marines and raptors.
If I was you, go toward the road that interest you the most at first and build the standard army that you want. Then, later on, you can decide to expand your army and try to field the Raptor Talon. Or it might be the daemon prince that you want to keep for later. Personally, I only got my daemon prince relatively late in my army building and I haven't fielded it that often.

If I was in your shoes, I would probably first try to get a functional Chaos Warband as this pretty much the best basic army that Chaos can field at the time. Then, you can graft formations to it so that you can field your Murder Talon detachment. In this perspective, the DP could be a later purchase. I think you should first make a kit bashed Chaos Lord on bike as your warlord as this quite night lordish and also very effective. Alternatively, it could be a jump pack one if you prefer and have a Raptor unit that he can join (or Warp Talons, but they are overpriced and you don't like them). That should keep you busy for quite some time. Later on, you can chose to buy what is necessary for the second formation you want in your army. Having played a few smaller games will give you a better idea of what you want to add the most in your army. The most obvious way to add a daemon prince is by taking it as a Lord of the Legion Command choice. Having the points to field him is more complicated, but you can figure it out later when you have more game experience.
Adeptus007 wrote:Again any tips appreciated and after thinking about it I agree that upgrading the DP is one of the best choices seeing as I plan to make it my warlord (and you don't want a squishy warlord now do u?)
EDIT- I could just run CAD and RapT and I think that would solve my previous problems......
Yes, this would work. I feel that the Chaos Warband is better than the CAD overall, but the later has the advantage of being more flexible in what you can take in the force.
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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Adeptus007 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:11 pm

Right now im only planning on getting around 500-750 points worth of troops (to test and such) but I want to have a rough idea of an 1850 point army and just see what I would like. Also, quick question regarding codexes, is it required that I buy Warhammer 40k The rules or can I just look up all those rules and just pick up the codex specific to chaos space marines? Cause I know there are two codexes alone for chaos space marines (one with all the new formations for the 9 legions and the original) and then there is also the rules book. That is just so much money to drop on rule books its really bonkers (yes I know this hobby is pricey I get that but like 70 bucks for rule books is just insane right?)

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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Salamand3rs4Lyfe » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:15 pm

Sadly you have to get the main rule book and your Chaos codex, plus the Traitor Legion supplement
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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Kovlovsky » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:00 pm

Adeptus007 wrote:Right now im only planning on getting around 500-750 points worth of troops (to test and such) but I want to have a rough idea of an 1850 point army and just see what I would like. Also, quick question regarding codexes, is it required that I buy Warhammer 40k The rules or can I just look up all those rules and just pick up the codex specific to chaos space marines? Cause I know there are two codexes alone for chaos space marines (one with all the new formations for the 9 legions and the original) and then there is also the rules book. That is just so much money to drop on rule books its really bonkers (yes I know this hobby is pricey I get that but like 70 bucks for rule books is just insane right?)
The main rule book is quite important to have because you have to know your rules and they are complicated enough so that you have to look them up in game from time to time. There are some ways to get it for a more modest cost. First, I think the digital version is cheaper, but personally I like good old books. But I have a friend who prefer them digital because there are quick links to special rules and other references like that.

The other way is buying the Dark Vengence starter set. The advantage is that you get a small version of the rulebook with the full rules, a set of templates that you will need in game, a scatter dice, a few normal dices and some really cool looking Chaos models. The Dark Angels half of the box can be then sold, given to a friend or converted into chaos models with a bit of work.

The last possibility is getting the Dark Vengence book from bit stores on the internet. I got one on a bit store that also had an Ebay store for a reasonnable amount of money. This is probably your best bet if you want to save money and don't care about the Dark Vengence models and you already have the templates and scatter dice. Templates and this dices are availlable separately on the GW website though.

The CSM codex and the Traitor Legions supplement are must too.
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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Adeptus007 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:14 pm

That is so expensive its not even funny. But hey I'm in it for the long run I guess. Anyway I figure ill mess around on Army list builder for a while a find a 500-750 point army I like and role with that for now. Personally I want to jump right in and go all out on more expensive models, but I know this isnt a smart decision (in both money wise and game wise). I think that 500-750 is good enough to give me a feel for my army and I can work with it from there.

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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Jeffers » Mon Feb 20, 2017 2:21 pm

You need to bare in mind, new rulebook is coming soon. So dont splurge too much as who knows what may change

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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Raschier » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:32 pm

The Killteam box has small softback rulebook and rules for killteam, plus 10 spacemarines and tau firewarriors. You can convert those spacemarines into chaos spacemarines and sell the tau, this gives you a part of your money back and I think it is overall cheapern cause for me it was €50 for the killteam box and the rulebook cost €60 (this were three books, one with rules, one with lore and one with art).

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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Adeptus007 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:36 am

Jeffers wrote:You need to bare in mind, new rulebook is coming soon. So dont splurge too much as who knows what may change
Idk I'm not to worried about this mostly because I still need to pick up the rule books regardless.

Also is it possible to run Murder Talon and Black Legion Speartip in the same army? Or do I have to choose one and base the entire army around that? Also yes I know that those are exclusive to night lords and black legion (respectively) but what about black legion speartip and black crusade detachment. Am I locked to only using one of those or can I use both?

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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Koonitz » Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:53 am

Adeptus007 wrote:Also is it possible to run Murder Talon and Black Legion Speartip in the same army? Or do I have to choose one and base the entire army around that? Also yes I know that those are exclusive to night lords and black legion (respectively) but what about black legion speartip and black crusade detachment. Am I locked to only using one of those or can I use both?
You are allowed any number of formations or detachments, from any number of sources (including wildly disparate armies, such as allying Chaos and Tyranids, if desired) in a single army. The rulebook lays out how allys work, and how they interact with each other (in your case, two different Chaos factions would be battle brothers, unless otherwise stated, and have no negative issues with allying). All you need to do in your case is say "This formation is a Night Lords formation, and this formation is a Black Legion formation".

HOWEVER, under a single detachment or formation (ie: If you took the Night Lords detachment), all models (and all formations) that are part of that single formation/detachment MUST be part of the same army. As such, the entire detachment must be Night Lords or the entire detachment must be Black Legion.
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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Adeptus007 » Wed Feb 22, 2017 12:16 am

That's nice to hear, I've been toying with the idea of running my army under black legion rules and just paint the models as night lords. My only problem was the black legion speartip has no obsec, so I was thinking of running a separate formation/detachment to give me some obsec units

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Re: Question about detachments: Night Lords

Post by Kovlovsky » Wed Feb 22, 2017 2:44 pm

Adeptus007 wrote:That's nice to hear, I've been toying with the idea of running my army under black legion rules and just paint the models as night lords. My only problem was the black legion speartip has no obsec, so I was thinking of running a separate formation/detachment to give me some obsec units
Personally, I don't think that taking a Black Legion Speartip and a Murder Talon at the same time is feasible in an efficient way at 2000 pts. I think it asks for too many requirements that would force you making huge sacrifices in terms of equipment and end with small units without the tools to do their job. Use a CAD with cultists if you need objective holders with a Black Legion Speartip. It's much cheaper and more easy to do. The Black Legion also works well in a CAD with terminators and Chosen as troops. It's hard to remove terminators from objectives and Chosen can unleash a lot of firepower. Anyway, you can experiment quite a bit once you have your models.
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