Assault D3

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Assault D3

Post by Bogerdan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:00 pm

Hello,
I'm new to Warhammer and have a question on the Bloodflail in the Khorne Daemonkin Codex. It states under type Assault D3 but I can't find anywhere in the KDC or Rules book that explains what that means. Please Help. Thanks

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Re: Assault D3

Post by Kovlovsky » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:04 pm

First, it means it's an assault weapon. It means that you can fire while moving at full balistic skill and still charge in the same turn. Then, D3 means that it shoots as many times than the result you get with a 3 faced die. The easiest way to do it is to use a D6 and divide the result by two. A result of one or a two = 1, a three or a four = 2, a five or a six = 3. Each time you fire it, you roll again to see how many shots you get. Does it answers your question?
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Re: Assault D3

Post by Bogerdan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:06 pm

Yes it does thank you very much. :D

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Re: Assault D3

Post by Bogerdan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:12 pm

Kovlovsky wrote:First, it means it's an assault weapon. It means that you can fire while moving at full balistic skill and still charge in the same turn. Then, D3 means that it shoots as many times than the result you get with a 3 faced die. The easiest way to do it is to use a D6 and divide the result by two. A result of one or a two = 1, a three or a four = 2, a five or a six = 3. Each time you fire it, you roll again to see how many shots you get. Does it answers your question?
Also you said shot d3 times does that count just for the shooting phase or for the melee attack phase also?

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Re: Assault D3

Post by Kovlovsky » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:34 pm

It's only for the shooting phase.
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Re: Assault D3

Post by Bogerdan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:56 pm

Ok again thank you very much

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Re: Assault D3

Post by Arnathos » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:43 am

It is worth noting that when a weapon has more than 1 profile (say 1 shooting and 1 melee) you have to choose which one to use each turn. So if you shoot your weapon in the shooting phase you cannot use it in the assault phase of the same turn. The same goes for overwatch etc, so consider your options carefully before shooting.
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Re: Assault D3

Post by Whitewing » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:03 am

Arnathos wrote:It is worth noting that when a weapon has more than 1 profile (say 1 shooting and 1 melee) you have to choose which one to use each turn. So if you shoot your weapon in the shooting phase you cannot use it in the assault phase of the same turn. The same goes for overwatch etc, so consider your options carefully before shooting.
Neat! Do you have a page reference for that so I can confirm? I'd look it up myself but I am SUPER lazy right now (very hot where I am :D).
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Re: Assault D3

Post by Koonitz » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:20 am

Arnathos wrote:It is worth noting that when a weapon has more than 1 profile (say 1 shooting and 1 melee) you have to choose which one to use each turn. So if you shoot your weapon in the shooting phase you cannot use it in the assault phase of the same turn. The same goes for overwatch etc, so consider your options carefully before shooting.
Some weapons may have that restriction as a special rule on the weapon, however there is no such restriction on weapons as a general rule.

A weapon that has both a ranged and melee weapon profile, may be used in either fashion freely unless otherwise stated.
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Re: Assault D3

Post by Arnathos » Wed Dec 30, 2015 9:32 am

Page 41 of the main rulebook, paragraph 2 says otherwise.

Weapons that I know of that fall in this category:

Ork Burnas, Saint Celestine's Ardent Blade, The Gauntlets of Ultramar, Necron Rod of the Covenant, Eldar Shining Spears.

Off the top of my head, I'm not sure if pistols technically have 2 profiles or not, but unless stated otherwise in their respective entries, yeah.
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Re: Assault D3

Post by Scavvon » Wed Dec 30, 2015 11:35 am

Arnathos wrote:Page 41 of the main rulebook, paragraph 2 says otherwise.

Weapons that I know of that fall in this category:

Ork Burnas, Saint Celestine's Ardent Blade, The Gauntlets of Ultramar, Necron Rod of the Covenant, Eldar Shining Spears.

Off the top of my head, I'm not sure if pistols technically have 2 profiles or not, but unless stated otherwise in their respective entries, yeah.
Pistols have the "melee" trait. So usually only one profile.

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Re: Assault D3

Post by Koonitz » Wed Dec 30, 2015 1:49 pm

Where this is the case, there will be a separate line in the weapon's profile for each, and you can choose which to use each turn.
I choose to use both.

And I have never seen anyone do otherwise until today.

In several examples where we specifically restrict multiple profile use, these weapons have special rules limiting them. If the main rules already have such a restriction, what purpose is there to have these individual restrictions? Space Marine Sternguard ammo, Ork burnaz, combi-weapons, et cetera. It would be pointless redundancy that has not been cleaned up since 6th Edition, or possibly before.
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Re: Assault D3

Post by Arnathos » Wed Dec 30, 2015 6:08 pm

Ork burnaz no longer specify, nor do any of the other weapons I mentioned AFAIK. I've seen Matt play it this way in a batrep way back when Necrons got a 7th edition release. I'm on my phone atm so forgive my not linking it, it was necrons vs grey knights when he still used decurion.

And riddle me this, why would this paragraph even exist in rule rulebook if you could just use both? Or why would it say turn rather than phase? The way I understand it you need to choose, using all the profiles is not choosing per se.
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Re: Assault D3

Post by Koonitz » Wed Dec 30, 2015 8:46 pm

Many weapons don't mention it when they have both a ranged and melee profile, because they do not put additional restrictions upon the weapon beyond what is in the rulebook.

When someone puts two coins in front of you and asks you simply to "choose", the option to chose "both" or "neither" are valid choices. You are simply making the assumption that you must choose one, and only one.

What if the person places 3, or 4, coins in front of you and asks you to choose? Must you still only choose one? Or can you choose 2?

The paragraph quite simply doesn't specify that I must only choose one.
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Re: Assault D3

Post by Arnathos » Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:15 am

So what your saying is, if I fire a Blastmaster I can choose to use both the varied and single frequency? Because if I can choose to use both profiles in the same turn, then I must use all of them as the same page (41) says that when a model fires their weapon they must do so to full effect.

Missile launchers use the exact same wording as on page 41 btw, so when it tells me that everytime I fire my missile launcher I may choose which type of missile to use I can say all of them? Actually I have to say all of them, because, you know, full effect when firing etc. Although if you go with my interpretation the added rules make sense, as they specify you choose each time it fires, not each turn.

I will give you that this is a debated issue:Warseer Dakka Dakka.

The way we play it around here is that you need to choose one each turn. This also means that if I would fire interceptor with a blastmaster using single frequency and would get assaulted that turn, it would not be able to fire using varied frequency in overwatch. A missile launcher would be able to interceptor with a frag missile and overwatch using a krak missile, because it gets to choose each time it fires.

It would be interesting to see how the rules are worded in the French, German and Spanish versions of the rules, as they are sometimes more consistent(but sometimes totally different as well).

The ETC FAQ for 2016 rules that you choose once each phase, rather than once each turn and seems to agree that pistols have 2 profiles.
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