Rise again flying circus

The ideal discussion board for all traitors, heretics, and the warp-spawned Daemons.
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gorefangz
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Rise again flying circus

Post by gorefangz » Fri Jun 20, 2014 4:42 pm

With some updated rules for flying monstrous creatures, i think our daemons will rule the sky once more (not that we ever lost air superiority). the new rules state that the grounded test is taken at the END of the phase in which it suffered an UNSAVED WOUND. quick reminder that it used to be an instant test if they ever got hit. so many times has the only wound to one of my flying princes been from the actual falling to the ground from flashlights. and also they have been killed from a fluke hit and grounded from the first unit allowing his whole army to bear down and hit my now grounded creature full force with no hit limitations.

now, i dont care when you hit me because i wont even have to test, and even if you cause a wound, i dont have to worry until the very end of the phase when i might be grounded, and at that point, if im on the ground for assault phase... are you going to assault my daemon prince?

not only this, but we will also be ruling the pschic phase. my 1750 list has 4 lvl 3 psykers that all fly and are generally higher phycher lvl than most other physchers in the game. so itll be my 12 + d6 dice against most peoples 2 or 3 + d6 dice if that. with a 4+ deny. i think this is a huge buff for daemons, mostly the new grounded tests, i havnt had much testing for the psychic phase changes to really know if its a buff or a nerf, but so far, dominating a phase is generally a good thing.
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Re: Rise again flying circus

Post by Todda » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:30 pm

The problem is if you play the new missions then you can not be a scoring unit if Swooping... on core troops get Objective Secured special rule, so they can not even drop to Glide to contest. They also can not charge the turn they drop to Glide. If they start on the board at the beginning of the game they must be in Glide mode and if they come in from reserves they must be in Swoop mode. That means they come in Swooping on turn 2, change to Glide on turn 3, and Assault on turn 4. They do get a 4+ Jink save, but their Vector Strike only does ONE S6 AP2 hit. Also seventh stresses 2 things the Flying Circus lacks... lots of troops and dedicated transports.
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Re: Rise again flying circus

Post by Arnathos » Wed Jun 25, 2014 4:38 pm

To be honest with the new summoning daemonology and the changes to jink you can have 3-4 dirt cheap nurgle princes flying all over the place dumping scoring units of daemons everywhere. You lack objective secured, but you should still have enough points left over to take something that deals with enemy troops.
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Re: Rise again flying circus

Post by Todda » Thu Jun 26, 2014 11:46 am

They also downgrades Smash too. The Flying Circus is not really a good idea. And for summoning... 3 Warp Charges. You need to put 5 dice into it just to get a 50% chance. So you are taking 5 Daemon FMC with Mark of Nurgle and level Psychic Powers... That gives you 15 Warp Charges. Say you roll a 3 for 18 Warp Charges. You can cast 2 Summonings 91% of the time (same as rolling that 10 LD before to use Psychic powers). You could do 6D each to summon 3, but then you only have a 66% chance of Manifesting... so still 2. What do you summon? 10 Bloodletters that Deepstrike and cant assault? You are summoning basically 200 points of models. You might thing that is great... except you are using 1500 points to do this and they will just instantly die as the enemy has little else to shoot at and charge. In the mean time you are getting no victory points for objectives and your enemy is way ahead.

So do you stay Gliding and use your Psychic to shoot and boost your Invulnerable save? This at least gives you a chance to do some damage, but even then you are not that strong and most armies will take you down.

The Flying Circus was just weakened too much. Same with a Tzeentch shooty army.
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Re: Rise again flying circus

Post by gorefangz » Sat Jun 28, 2014 1:43 pm

well first off, why would anyone ever choose bloodletters like that, i would take plaguebearers almost everytime and deepstrike into some terrain for the 2+ cover and theyd just sit there, then i could cast it again with a different prince. im not saying this one fault in your argument invalidates it, but there is still some stuff going for it. also, if i have 18 dice, im also not going to be casting a bunch of 3 warp charge powers... there arre going to be some 1 charge powers and maybe some 2 chargers. not many powers are 3 charges. then i also have 5 flying creatures in combat basically on turn 2, maybe 3 if im unlucky and have the short board edge deployment. it may have been nerfed in a few places, but the few buffs it got are a big deal. especially the one about grounded tests are only if it actually suffers a wound and it happens at the end of the phase. that get hit and get grounded instantly was almost the only reason that princes died in 6th. main other reason being they are left stranded on the ground after killing a unit in combat.
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Todda
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Re: Rise again flying circus

Post by Todda » Sun Jun 29, 2014 1:44 pm

Right, but like I said... the Psychic Phase got worse, not better... especially for armies with a lot of Psykers...like a Tzeentch shooty army. I used to take 3 Heralds and 3 units of Pink Horrors, 2 units of 3 Flamers, a unit of 6 Screamers, and 2 Flaming Chariots. They were not bad. The Herald would cast Prescience and the unit and Herald would do 7D6 in Flicker Fire at S6 re-rolling to hit. Now I get 4D6 and no re-rolls to hit. So shooty Tzeentch is out... and summoning helps, but still leaves them too weak. Pink Horrors just die too fast and the Screamers can not charge the first turn summoned... I have to deviate and take Plague Bearers...

See the problem is before you cast at your leadership... now you cast with Warp Charges and each is at a 50%, so the more Warp Charges required the worse it is... and they are getting a ton of deny the witch dice. Their going to ignore your summoning and block Cursed Earth. The 1D6 makes up for some of the extra Warp Charges you need to put into everything, but with multiple casters that 1D6 just does not cut it. Now instead of casting most of my powers in my Tzeentch army, I can only cast a handful.
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mouser04
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Re: Rise again flying circus

Post by mouser04 » Wed Jul 02, 2014 2:26 am

yup now orks have the tracter cannon shooting monstrous flyers ground check on a -3

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Todda
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Re: Rise again flying circus

Post by Todda » Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:04 pm

And other Fliers can Vector Strike you....
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Re: Rise again flying circus

Post by Skullead » Wed Jul 02, 2014 11:24 pm

The Screamers might not be able to charge the turn they come in but they can still turbo and do their fly over attack. Which makes them one of the best things to summon since they can immediately do stuff the turn they come in. Also don't forget Heralds of Slaanesh can be summoned with a chariot which is just hilarious.

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Re: Rise again flying circus

Post by Todda » Thu Jul 03, 2014 9:47 am

Flamers can still shoot too. I keep forgetting about the flyover.
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