Chaos Daemons Tactica: Updated for 7th Edition!

The ideal discussion board for all traitors, heretics, and the warp-spawned Daemons.
4lex
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Re: Chaos Daemons Tactica: Updated for 7th Edition!

Post by 4lex » Tue Sep 13, 2016 8:17 pm

My grain of salt bout nurgling:

*9 Bases of nurglings is only 135pts with 36 wounds and 36 poisoned attacks and they have shrouded. If you wanna keep most your stuff in reserve for deep strike, 2 units of those little pricks should survive turn one. They can also tar pit any thing with str5 or less for ever if not own them out right .

* comandogling: 3 bases are 35pts for 12 wounds not slowed by terrain + shroud + infiltrate thats easy to deploy out of line of sight its so good its even better than best awesome great. If you can infiltrate them near broadside, devastator, lootas, thats 35pts your opponent cant ignore and probably have to engage with a much higher cost units.

* They are so tough to shoot down that they will lure flamer units into insane position. Cause ppl cant resist the double damage thingy or the instant death heavy flamer.

* tough infiltrating troops (Obsec)

*tally band of nurglings is 285pts of serious anoyance

CivilianNo2
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Re: Chaos Daemons Tactica: Updated for 7th Edition!

Post by CivilianNo2 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:49 pm

Great tactica, and thanks for posting.

Tzeentch Wargear/Mutating Warpblade/Warp Mutation is on a Melee wargear weapon.
Will not work for non-melee attacks like Flickering Fire.

7E rulebook is pretty specific about the keyword 'Melee', and the Mutating Warpblade is a Melee weapon.

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Whitewing
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Re: Chaos Daemons Tactica: Updated for 7th Edition!

Post by Whitewing » Sun Nov 27, 2016 10:28 am

CivilianNo2 wrote:Great tactica, and thanks for posting.

Tzeentch Wargear/Mutating Warpblade/Warp Mutation is on a Melee wargear weapon.
Will not work for non-melee attacks like Flickering Fire.

7E rulebook is pretty specific about the keyword 'Melee', and the Mutating Warpblade is a Melee weapon.
Thanks for the feedback! You may well be correct that the Warp Mutation rule is supposed to only trigger when the bearer kills a character/MC in close combat, but the wording on the rule doesn't specifically say that the enemy character/MC MUST be killed in close combat, WITH the Mutating Warpblade, so a strong argument can be made that it applies to any character killed by the bearer, in any way. The argument is reinforced when you consider that the Chaos Spawn generated by the mutating effects is created within 6" of the victim, and not the bearer of the blade, suggesting that the rule allows for Spawn to be created quite some distance away from the bearer.

Also consider the rule Warpdoom, from the Staff of Change. It's worded VERY specifically: "If a non-vehicle character or Monstrous Creature loses its last wound to a close combat attack from a Staff of Change, it immediately explodes...". This is the kind of wording I would expect to see on the Warpblade if that was their intention, I mean, the rules are RIGHT next to each other! The simple fact that Warpblade is worded so incredibly loosely by comparison is cause enough to assume that it was intended that literally any character/MC killed by the bearer was supposed to mutate. (it also sells more Spawn kits, I suppose...)

As for the Melee wargear only having effects in melee thing, it's an incredibly hazy area to discuss. It's true that a unit can only use a weapon with the Melee type in close combat (unless it has an effect that says you can use it in other ways, such as having a ranged attack mode) but that doesn't mean that the piece of wargear itself (and rules it confers) ceases to exist outside of melee.

There was a similar longstanding argument about the Blade of Blood, with many folk claiming it only granted Rampage when using the weapon in close combat, since it was a melee weapon after all, and others claiming that since it granted the bearer Rampage, a specific Special Rule, surely that rule didn't go away simply because the bearer chose to use a different weapon, such as an Axe of Khorne. This debate has been largely put to rest, since the Blade is wargear first, and a weapon second.

Since GW has decided, in their infinite wisdom, not to actually answer these questions and instead say "Let the community decide things for themselves! (except for these specific exceptions which we will create .jpg FAQ-type images on our facebook for and then never ever ever link to said FAQ-type images from anywhere ever)" we have to muddle through and figure it out for ourselves when the rules aren't clear.

Long story short, if you feel that the Mutating Warpblade should only allow a character to mutate another in close combat, more power to you. I've been playing that way for some time myself when I break out my Tzeentch Daemons(it just makes more sense to me, dangit), but I can't in good conscience advise others against playing Rules as Written here in the Tactica.

**EDIT**
I was just perusing the new official FAQ that was released on the 16th for the 40k rulebook, and the last entry on page 4 reads:
"Q: Do weapon special rules that say ‘a model equipped with this
weapon’ or ‘this weapon’s bearer’ take effect even when not used
as the attacking weapon?
A: Yes"
So it would appear that Yes, a character with a Mutating warpblade always mutates enemy characters/MCs if they kill them with anything at all.
Check out my Chaos Daemons Tactica! I'm super proud of it :D

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