Drop Pods by Turn 3?

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TobyGaunt89
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Drop Pods by Turn 3?

Post by TobyGaunt89 » Tue May 01, 2018 4:47 am

Hey everyone. Been looking over the Space Marines (and Blood Angels) and been pondering the role of the Drop Pod in 8th Edtion after the 2018 Errata/FAQ (where you can't Deep Strike outside deployment zone turn 1).

My ideas was to bring three Drop Pods in Turn 3. Each Drop Pod containing 2x 5-man Tactical Squads, for a total of 6 Infantry units.
The mindset is based on the following:

1) Tactical Marines are a bit more vulnerable then their Primaris counterpart, so getting them in by Turn 3 (rather then Turn 1 or 2), will limit the amount of turns your opponent may have to take them all out. Adding also the remainder of your army (that will fight from Turn 1 and/or 2) you can take out dangerous enemy units by the time Turn 3 clocks in.

2) Being Troops, these units may have a chance of grabbing a "Objective Secure" objective or even charge in Turn 3 (or 4) in order to hold an enemy unit in place. The later seem to fit Blood Angels rather nicely.

3) By having 6 Troops on the go, the startup for a Brigade Detachment is at hand. With the change in 2018 Errata/FAQ, this will add 15 Command Points rather then the normalized 8-9 Command Points (from Battalion + Spearhead/Outrider/Vanguard Detachment).

But I have a few questions:

1) For the purpose of "Number of Deep Strike units" rules, does this count as three units, six units or nine units? E.i. Do you count only the Drop Pods? Only the Tactical Marine Squads? Or all units combined?

2) When arriving at Turn 3, which Special Weapon (or Heavy Weapon) upgrade do you all think will have the most impact? I know it's largely based on what army you face, but do you guys/gals normally fit your Marines against Infantry or a combo between Infantry and heavier option? E.I. Keeping with Flamer/Plasma? Or Split Fire with Meltagun/Lascannon?

3) After upgrades are settled and points tallied, do you guys/gals think this would be an overall good tactical move for the Space Marines/Blood Angels? I know the Drop Pod isn't exactly the cheapest option to go for in the Dedicated Transport department, but Deep Strike is no small boost to add to any army, let alone Space Marines/Blood Angels.

Hope to hear your opinion in the forum and as always, happy wargaming :)

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Re: Drop Pods by Turn 3?

Post by Mach-Ten » Tue May 01, 2018 5:21 am

TobyGaunt89 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:47 am
But I have a few questions:

1) For the purpose of "Number of Deep Strike units" rules, does this count as three units, six units or nine units? E.i. Do you count only the Drop Pods? Only the Tactical Marine Squads? Or all units combined?
do not count transports for the purposes of deepstriking BETA rules
EDIT - got it wrong

and you count the transport and all units in the transport as "one Drop" for the +1 to roll on deployment
TobyGaunt89 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:47 am
2) When arriving at Turn 3, which Special Weapon (or Heavy Weapon) upgrade do you all think will have the most impact? I know it's largely based on what army you face, but do you guys/gals normally fit your Marines against Infantry or a combo between Infantry and heavier option? E.I. Keeping with Flamer/Plasma? Or Split Fire with Meltagun/Lascannon?
whatever you take must have a range greater than 9" (not 8 and not 9 ... as you must be MORE than 9" away) and also be aware that you count as moving so heavy will be -1 to hit stuff .. plasma is a good mix depending on your preferences
TobyGaunt89 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:47 am
3) After upgrades are settled and points tallied, do you guys/gals think this would be an overall good tactical move for the Space Marines/Blood Angels? I know the Drop Pod isn't exactly the cheapest option to go for in the Dedicated Transport department, but Deep Strike is no small boost to add to any army, let alone Space Marines/Blood Angels.
There's so many other ways to get models on the table in later turns .. drop pods just cost too much ... you could buy a nicely kitted out squad of snipers for less and get them forward onto objectives early on.
Last edited by Mach-Ten on Wed May 02, 2018 3:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Drop Pods by Turn 3?

Post by mrazek22 » Tue May 01, 2018 9:04 am

Just as a learning point for me, can someone please explain the purpose of drop pods? I never played SM, but there seem to be so many more advantageous ways to get SMs on the table in the enemy backfield other than Drop pods.

What are the advantages to Drop pods?

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Re: Drop Pods by Turn 3?

Post by TobyGaunt89 » Tue May 01, 2018 9:39 am

Mach-Ten

1) Ok, thanks. So that means six drops total. A good thing to know :)

2) Yeah, [...over 9" away from enemy units...] rules do restrict Flamers/Heavy Flamers a bit but they are still pretty good for overwatch shots.
With 15 Command Points at hand I see little reason not to upgrade the Captain in such a list to a Chapter Master do help with the -1 To Hit for Heavy Weapons.
Ok, Plasma. Got it :)

3) Well, there are ways you can get other units in on the cheap, but this regarded Tactical Marines (and their overall function in the game).
And as for too expensive, well. They are just 13 points more then a base Razorback, and when you factor in the Razorback's Lascannons/Las-Plas combo then I think it ends up being more expensive then the Drop Pod (according to Chapter Approved 2017 Errata/FAQ points values).
---

mrazek22

Well, as I'm the one that put up the original question in this matter I can't really say I'm an expert on Space Marines (I'm a Tyranids player in fact) but I am trying to see if the Drop Pod can have value as a third turn drop. That, hopefully, gets to land on a Objective Marker, holding it for 1-2 turns, while dishing out a unit that fills a role after they have been dropped. The big reason why I mentioned the Tactical Marines as the nominated unit was simply because I am trying to understand the role that the Tactical Marine adds now that the Primaris Marines and Scout Squads are becoming the new "norm" Troops unit in most Space Marines lists.

But, yeah. That question is what brings me here as well :P

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Re: Drop Pods by Turn 3?

Post by Koonitz » Tue May 01, 2018 9:53 am

Mach-Ten wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 5:21 am
TobyGaunt89 wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 4:47 am
But I have a few questions:

1) For the purpose of "Number of Deep Strike units" rules, does this count as three units, six units or nine units? E.i. Do you count only the Drop Pods? Only the Tactical Marine Squads? Or all units combined?
do not count transports for the purposes of deepstriking BETA rules

and you count the transport and all units in the transport as "one Drop" for the +1 to roll on deployment
Can you please clarify? I am unaware of any rule allowing you to ignore transports for the limitation of how much of your army you can hold in reserve.

In pre-beta rules, the transport counted as a separate unit, as did all units inside (thus, in the OP, the transport and 2 Tac squads would count as 3 units in reserve).

In current beta rules, you must count the power levels of ALL units in reserve. This includes all transports and units inside (which is specifically mentioned in the beta rule). Thus, the power level total of the drop pod and both tactical squads (multiplied by 3, for the 3 separate drop pods) must be added together to determine how much of your army must be deployed on the board.

You are correct, though, that the transport and all units/models inside are deployed as a single choice during deployment, thus they can increase your chances of getting the +1 for first turn.
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Re: Drop Pods by Turn 3?

Post by Mach-Ten » Wed May 02, 2018 3:40 am

Koonitz wrote:
Tue May 01, 2018 9:53 am

Can you please clarify? I am unaware of any rule allowing you to ignore transports for the limitation of how much of your army you can hold in reserve.
Crap,I completely conflated the exclusion from the "Organised play" rules for the "Rule of 3"

so yes, transports count into Powerlevel calculations for tactical reserves.. apologies

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Re: Drop Pods by Turn 3?

Post by Plutarch » Fri May 11, 2018 12:49 pm

Drop pods for what they do are grossly expensive now. If you're trying to land some sm goodness behind enemy lines or onto objectives - look to your units with jump packs, teleport options (though terms are lackluster still), and scouts.

Other options to look at are assault cannon razorbacks or rhinos. Land raiders are expensive as well, and may be better in the shelf.

If you insist to use drop pods - combi-plasma/flamer (in case you manage to get in exactly 9 or closer) for the sgt, either melta/lascannon/plasma as your heavy weapon and plasma gun or melta gun for your special weapons. also, grab some melta bombs on your sgts.

Next option is to invest in a 10 man dev squad and combat squad it. Though, depending on the points you're playing at - this may not be feasible if you're wanting a bat.

Ultimately - drop pods were so good to have previous edition with CADs and free transports (oversimplifying this, I know), they just aren't really worth the points. Also, with the way the rules are in general, you can't even use a drop pod as lore intended - I want to be able to drop it on a target...seriously, there's no reason not to be able to do that.

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Re: Drop Pods by Turn 3?

Post by Koonitz » Fri May 11, 2018 1:06 pm

Plutarch wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 12:49 pm
If you insist to use drop pods - combi-plasma/flamer (in case you manage to get in exactly 9 or closer)
Utilizing a drop pod for its intended purpose of "deep striking" a unit means you will never be able to do this. The drop pod and disembarking unit must both be deployed OUTSIDE 9" of any enemy units. There is no ability to get "exactly" 9 inches, as the rule is very clear that it must always be more than 9 inches from any enemy models.

Besides, flamers are 8" range, so even if you were exactly 9 inches, you wouldn't be able to fire them. They're a good weapon to protect a deep striking unit against counter-charge, however, and assuming the unit survives, they'll be effective in subsequent turns.
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Re: Drop Pods by Turn 3?

Post by Plutarch » Sun May 13, 2018 2:12 am

I had forgotten that flamers sit at 8" as opposed to 9. Error on my part. thanks for the catch

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