Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by coldsteel » Thu Apr 12, 2018 3:28 pm

mrazek22 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:39 pm
Have you ever heard of anyone needing a 20' shot? And a Deathstrike has a UNLIMITED RANGE. There has never been a game with a 20' table. There is no need.
Apoc, my young friend...
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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by mrazek22 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:03 pm

I am not going to be aiming a basalisk at those targets either. I'm going to be aiming my anti-tank, low shot high damage weaponry at them. Lascannons, meltas, tanks, etc. Using high wound low damage weaponry at single targets is wasting turns. It's primarily to take out multi-wound large group units, like squads of terminators or the like.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by Marit Lage » Thu Apr 12, 2018 5:06 pm

Basilisks can take hits way better than Heavy Weapon Teams, though. They also come with a heavy bolter. So while they're more expensive, to write them off because you don't see the value seems foolish to me. For getting heavy weapons onto the table, Teams are more efficient, but they're about as sturdy as a wet paper bag, and that's where vehicular artillery shines. Being able to place d6 high strength, good AP, and decent damage shots anywhere on the table while taking returning fire is an asset that many consider to be worth the points.
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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by Ronin » Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:54 pm

mrazek22 wrote:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 4:03 pm
I am not going to be aiming a basalisk at those targets either. I'm going to be aiming my anti-tank, low shot high damage weaponry at them. Lascannons, meltas, tanks, etc. Using high wound low damage weaponry at single targets is wasting turns. It's primarily to take out multi-wound large group units, like squads of terminators or the like.
Multi-shots are statistically more reliable than single shots especially this edition where there's almost always a chance of getting a save from AP-3 weapons or being in cover so that it's AP-2. It's exactly why no one ever uses the vanquisher whereas you fire an executioner, your opponent gets lucky and saves one or two shots, but most of it is bound to go through.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by coldsteel » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:49 pm

Ronin wrote:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 1:54 pm
It's exactly why no one ever uses the vanquisher whereas you fire an executioner, your opponent gets lucky and saves one or two shots, but most of it is bound to go through.
*looks at my squadron of LR Vanquishers* :cry:
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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by coldsteel » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:56 pm

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by Signet-Powers » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:52 pm

A Vanquisher on its own sucks, but on a Tank commander, with re-rolls of 1 and saving command re-rolls for the armor save it reliably averages a damage of 5 minimum to whatever it hits, 10 if both shots manage to get through and at 72 inches.

Add to that the lascannon and it can bring a Predator down to a couple of wounds per turn. It can outright kill it on its own if both shots get through. And that's not even for a full 200 points.

There's certainly more chance of a weapon with a higher firing rate getting shots through (Executioners and Battle Cannons), but the damage they'll do is limited or highly variable. If you utilise re-rolls, buffs and strategums which the Guard gets for pretty much free then you can eliminate risk and make the single shot-heavy damage weapons pretty likely to pass all their rolls and deal way more damage in general.

This is why I was considering changing the Sentinels Lascannon to a plasma cannon, because there's no way to buff it without wasting CP that otherwise could be better spent on a Russ.


EDIT::
One more thing as well, with better stats you're less likely to get a bad roll. A bad roll certainly has a larger effect on a Lascannon than a Heavy Bolter for example, but you can more confidently use a command point to re-roll that Lascannon weapon as the chance of it failing the wound or armor save roll again is much lower.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by Signet-Powers » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:59 pm

You had my hopes up that they'd fixed the Deathstrike in FAQ for a second there... :(

Now that is an unusuable unit.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by Ronin » Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:32 pm

Eh. The vanquisher's maximum damage is 6 whereas an executioner's is 24.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by Signet-Powers » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:09 am

I do use an Executioner as well. I mainly use the Vanquisher because I used it last edition and I havn't found the Battle Cannon to be that good as an alternative.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by Ronin » Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:45 am

Really? The battle cannon should be statistically a close second to the executioner. My friend uses a couple in his lists and they're annoying to deal with.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by Signet-Powers » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:41 am

I mean as Alternative anti-tank.

It was better at shooting everything else though, so I'll use the Battlecannon again for a while though, see how it goes. It's still got the lascannon anyway.

EDIT::
I am thinking now though that the Demolisher's actually the best Anti-Tank. It's basically a 2D3 Lascannon with +1 strength when you get down to it. With Vostroyan that's 30" which ain't too bad.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by mrazek22 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:01 pm

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,0 ... vy_Support

A quick break down of why we NEVER take a Vanquisher or an Exterminator. They statistically are worse in ever aspect, to you guessed it, the old Battle Cannon.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by Ronin » Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:15 pm

To be fair, I would take what folks write on 1d4chan with a grain of salt and I doubt any tournament winners write for them. Effectiveness of certain weapons tend to be anecdotal at best lol.

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Re: Sentinal weapon options - Chapter Approved.

Post by coldsteel » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:59 pm

Agreed. I have 1-turn killed a Land Raider with a couple Vanqs...
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