Guard Army Questions

Talk about all the armies of the Imperium here, from the mighty Space Marines to the innumerable Astra Militarum.
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Mecha82
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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Mecha82 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:53 am

If you think that IG is being treated badly in lore then you haven't seen how they treat SoB because they are ones that were made joke and Matt Ward is worst offender in that when he used them to elevate his GK back in 5th ed.
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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Signet-Powers » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:09 pm

To be fair though, Saint Celestine is the most OP daem LIVING SAINT in the entire game, and sisters are even more OP than Guard right now.

Sisters were also, if i remember correctly, the ones who saved cadia in the end, right before Abadon cheated.

As for Guard, they've had good showings, they're just worthless in lore against daemons. ...and Aeldari. ... and Drukhari. And Orks and Tyranids, and sieges and well trained armies and... hmm.

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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Ronin » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:14 pm

Honestly, the guard deserve more flak this edition because of how OP they are. :P I say this as guard is my second army and there's nothing like seeing double tapping leman russ's decimate your opponent by turn 2.

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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by mrazek22 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:35 pm

The thing about it is, you have lore, and you have the game, and NEVER THE TWO SHALL MEET. If Kaldor was as truly strong on the table as he is in the lore, he would literally be a 1 man army. Same with Marbo, Abbadon, Mortarion, ALL primarchs, and Creed. CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED.

But they aren't, and they shouldn't be, anywhere near what they are in Lore. So keeping this JUST Lore, no single race in the lore gets crapped on by ITS OWN RACE like the guard. The guard are made up of the BASIC humans of the Imperium. You know, the ones the SMs WERE CREATED TO PROTECT?

On their own, it's kind of funny. They are literally a joke against their actual space marine counterparts. They are the Street Fighter Dan Ibiki, against the Street Fighter Ryu.

Then 8th comes along and is all like, LOOK HOW BAD WE LOOSE WARS! That is their biggest accomplishment. They LOSE STANDING! No other races claims their history by losing and dying.

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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Ronin » Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:52 pm

/shrug

Black Library is pretty inconsistent in how the 40k lore is portrayed, though. Honestly, I like to imagine the 40k universe to be Ciaphas Cain's version.

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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Signet-Powers » Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:25 pm

mrazek22 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:35 pm
The thing about it is, you have lore, and you have the game, and NEVER THE TWO SHALL MEET. If Kaldor was as truly strong on the table as he is in the lore, he would literally be a 1 man army. Same with Marbo, Abbadon, Mortarion, ALL primarchs, and Creed. CREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED.

But they aren't, and they shouldn't be, anywhere near what they are in Lore. So keeping this JUST Lore, no single race in the lore gets crapped on by ITS OWN RACE like the guard. The guard are made up of the BASIC humans of the Imperium. You know, the ones the SMs WERE CREATED TO PROTECT?

On their own, it's kind of funny. They are literally a joke against their actual space marine counterparts. They are the Street Fighter Dan Ibiki, against the Street Fighter Ryu.

Then 8th comes along and is all like, LOOK HOW BAD WE LOOSE WARS! That is their biggest accomplishment. They LOSE STANDING! No other races claims their history by losing and dying.
Well... I was exagurating earlier somewhat for comedic effect. The Guard have a pretty equal showing in terms of losses and victories across the lore.

In their own codex, as well as many supplements and Books (Cain series, Ghosts series, Iron Guard, Cadian Blood, etc...) they are incredibly competant, able to launch entire crusades without any marines, held back only by beurocracy, attrociously selfish commanders and often times their own inter-regimental rivalries.

In actual lore Guard fight Orks, Renegades and Cultists more than anything. Like 99% of the time. They suffer against Marines in large concentrated numbers but can still kill them when they need to. They just don't train or equip for it because it's never likely to happen. Many Guard regiments don't even know if Marines actually exist for real, they're that rare.

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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by mrazek22 » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:14 pm

I'm not doubting the average competency of the guard,I was more reflecting on how the rest of the Imperium views them. In the Baneblade series, as well as the Dark Angel series, all the SM's either outright deride them as useless, or at best, look at them as foolish children. Only good for throwing in countless waves against the enemy, not actually good for anything else.

Now, in the guard-centric fluff, yeah. They are total BAMFs. Gaunt, Cain, etc. But that's how they view themselves. The best way I can explain it is look how Superman pretends to be human. He makes himself look weak and boring. Because that's how he perceives humanity. That is how SM's perceive the Guard.

It's even worse when you look at how the DE view the guard. The term I think, is "fleshlight".

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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Ronin » Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:45 pm

That's part of the fun, though. The guard are bada** because they are given the bare necessities to fight and survive and they're disregarded as puny in a galaxy full of supernatural horrors. The whole point of 40k is that it's grim dark and life for the common man is extremely cheap. Of course they have to be the redshirts because it depicts how dystopian the setting is when millions can die from a single battle.

My regiment is made up of mostly child soldiers and teenagers who are sent to the ugliest of warzones while the veteran squads are the ones that made it to adulthood. I make it my goal every game to tell my opponent that and guilt trip them. :P

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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Signet-Powers » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:10 pm

mrazek22 wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:14 pm
In the Baneblade series, as well as the Dark Angel series, all the SM's either outright deride them as useless, or at best, look at them as foolish children.
The Dark Angels aren't well liked by other Marines for the most part. Not that others don't share those opinions on Guardsmen, or that Space Marines see Guardsmen as equals, but many do hold a considerable amount of respect for them.

Space Wolves went into a war with the Inquisition to protect a random bunch of Guardsmen from being executed on Armageddon.

Ultramarines have their own regiments of Guardsmen called the Ultramar Auxilia that they figt alongside. Titus from that game also liked the Cadians quite a bit.

Blood Angels are mostly ambivilent to humans, but I found this extract from Reddit from a book called 'Master of Mankind' were a Blood Angel is apparently kind to a small child. I can't imagine him having particular disdain towards Guardsmen in this case.
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And you also have Imperial Fists and Salamanders. These are only a few chapters out of many. Iron Hands don't like humans. Neither do Dark Angels as you say and Templars for the most part. It tends to vary a lot.









As for the Dark Eldar, well some Guard commanders happen to be very "friendly" with them.
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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Mecha82 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:37 am

Signet-Powers wrote:
Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:10 pm
The Dark Angels aren't well liked by other Marines for the most part. Not that others don't share those opinions on Guardsmen, or that Space Marines see Guardsmen as equals, but many do hold a considerable amount of respect for them.

Space Wolves went into a war with the Inquisition to protect a random bunch of Guardsmen from being executed on Armageddon.
To be fair while I like Dark Angels I admit that they can be often very unlikeable like in one audio drama were surviving Deathwing guy working with surviving Long Fang was far too eager to accuse Space Wolves because of Wulfen while in another audio drama Dark Angel of that Deathwatch Kill Team ended up backstabbing everyone else to deliver item from destroyed Craftworld to his chapter.

And that case with Space Wolves standing up for Guardsmen and Guardswomen made me like them even more while making me dislike Inquisition even more. It does say something about Space Wolves when they are willing to stand up for regular humans against people that would happily annihilate them for even smallest reason.
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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Ronin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:16 am

They weren't doing much standing up for the little folks on Prospero. ;)

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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Mecha82 » Wed Feb 21, 2018 10:49 am

Well while that is good point we need to remember that it was back in Horus Heresy and only Space Wolf from that era still around is Björn the Fellhanded who pilots Dreadnought so those were different Space Wolves than during current era. I mean it was about 10,000 years ago so it's more than likely that current Space Wolves aren't similar to those back then. No need to put other chapters down to make your own favorite look better.
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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Ronin » Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:10 pm

But chapter rivalry is fun and plus they're only fictional factions, lol. If you think it's unfair how I'm giving wolves flak, try being an Ultramarines player who gets put down every edition for being the "poster boys" and/or getting good characters. Also, with how many times I saw thunderwolf cavalry deathstar spam in 7th and long fang spam in 5th, you can't blame me for still being a tad salty at being on the receiving end of those hairy barbarians. :P

Anyways, I think the loyalist chapters have remained relatively the same personality wise despite 10k years of change with the exception of the Blood Angels becoming a tad more insane and the Iron Hands becoming more cynical with the loss of their primarch.

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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Koonitz » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:14 pm

Hey, while we're on the tangential subject, I think I got a book or two of reasons to dislike the Space Wolves... Gimme a second...
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Re: Guard Army Questions

Post by Signet-Powers » Wed Feb 21, 2018 7:21 pm

To be clear as well, just because a faction isn't liked by others in the lore, doesn't mean they're a bad faction or anything like that. Often it's done on purpose and for a reason.

Taking the Gaunts Ghosts again for example, pretty much the entire 1st and 2nd book is about them trying to avoid being slaughtered by other Guard regiments who hate them because they're from a Feral World. A massive battle even revolves around an entire regiment of Stormtroopers trying to wipe them out en-mass.

Yet despite this the Taniths still win battles, not by being the best but through massive sacrifices, cunning and skill, even as everyone keeps trying to hold them down.

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