[2000] - Blood Angels Sanguinary Wing

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Akaitsuki
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[2000] - Blood Angels Sanguinary Wing

Post by Akaitsuki » Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:17 pm

+++ 100 - Blood Angels (Warhammer 40,000 8th Edition) [100 PL, 1998pts] +++

++ Air Wing Detachment +1CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) ++

+ Flyer +


Stormraven Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Twin multi-melta, Two hurricane bolters

Stormraven Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Twin multi-melta, Two hurricane bolters

Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Typhoon missile launcher

Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Typhoon missile launcher


++ Battalion Detachment +3CP (Imperium - Blood Angels) ++

+ HQ +


Sanguinary Priest: Bolt pistol, Chainsword, Jump Pack, The Veritas Vitae

The Sanguinor: Warlord

+ Troops +

Scout Squad
4x Scout: Sniper rifle
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

Scout Squad
4x Scout: Sniper rifle
Scout Sergeant: Bolt pistol, Sniper rifle

Tactical Squad
4x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol and boltgun

Tactical Squad
4x Space Marine
Space Marine Sergeant: Bolt pistol and boltgun

+ Elites +

Sanguinary Guard
8x Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Encarmine sword
2x Sanguinary Guard: Angelus boltgun, Power fist

Stratagems:
Upon Wings of Fire 1cp
Descent of Angels 2cp
Red Rampage 1cp
Only In Death Does Duty End 2cp
Honour The Chapter 3cp

Plan:
Put guys in the storm ravens, take objectives with scouts and hide. Move up, deep strike activate stratagems and go for the heart of the enemy list with the sanguinary guard while the flyers kill the vehicles and chaff units.

mrazek22
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Re: [2000] - Blood Angels Sanguinary Wing

Post by mrazek22 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:59 am

Just out of curiosity, how is this group going to fair against a like point blob army like nids or orks? I don't play much of SM since 8th, and I'm thinking of a generally similar group. I am worried that blob armies will decimate smaller focused armies though.

coldsteel
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Re: [2000] - Blood Angels Sanguinary Wing

Post by coldsteel » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:06 pm

mrazek22 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:59 am
Just out of curiosity, how is this group going to fair against a like point blob army like nids or orks? I don't play much of SM since 8th, and I'm thinking of a generally similar group. I am worried that blob armies will decimate smaller focused armies though.
The flyers are putting out a metric crapton of shots, should eat into blobs pretty easily.
Crucifiers (SM codex) (11881/703 PL)
Orks (3745/255 PL)
Astra Militarum (####/378 PL)
Fallen Crucifiers (CSM codex) (####/351 PL)
Khornate Daemons (####/65 PL)
Death Guard (2387/128 PL)
Primaris Marines (1099/60 PL)

mrazek22
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Re: [2000] - Blood Angels Sanguinary Wing

Post by mrazek22 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:11 pm

coldsteel wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:06 pm
mrazek22 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:59 am
Just out of curiosity, how is this group going to fair against a like point blob army like nids or orks? I don't play much of SM since 8th, and I'm thinking of a generally similar group. I am worried that blob armies will decimate smaller focused armies though.
The flyers are putting out a metric crapton of shots, should eat into blobs pretty easily.
Ok, so I am confused. If your units get stuck in melee with a mob, say a squad of 20 boys, you can't fire into them. Am I mixing up the editions? I still have yet to play my first game of 8th.

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Koonitz
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Re: [2000] - Blood Angels Sanguinary Wing

Post by Koonitz » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:24 pm

mrazek22 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:11 pm
coldsteel wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:06 pm
mrazek22 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 7:59 am
Just out of curiosity, how is this group going to fair against a like point blob army like nids or orks? I don't play much of SM since 8th, and I'm thinking of a generally similar group. I am worried that blob armies will decimate smaller focused armies though.
The flyers are putting out a metric crapton of shots, should eat into blobs pretty easily.
Ok, so I am confused. If your units get stuck in melee with a mob, say a squad of 20 boys, you can't fire into them. Am I mixing up the editions? I still have yet to play my first game of 8th.
In 40k, if a unit is actively locked in combat, it cannot be shot at by ranged weapons IN THE SHOOTING PHASE (psychic powers are different and may target units actively locked in combat unless otherwise stated). There is one exception, which is pistols. If a unit is locked in combat, it may still fire with any "Pistol" weapons, but must target the closest unit when doing so (if not locked in combat, the unit fires normally, following all normal restrictions).

Though the discussion you quoted never mentioned being locked in combat, so it's not fair to assume they will be.

Second, if you want to assume they will be, always remember that you can fall back out of combat. Thus, if a blob charges a unit of infantry, those infantry can fall back, allowing other units to fire into the blob. Units with Fly can also shoot on the same turn they fall back, so a unit of assault marines, for instance, could fall back and then flamer/pistol said blob they were just engaged with. A flyer could fall back out of any combat it found itself in and still fire.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

mrazek22
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Re: [2000] - Blood Angels Sanguinary Wing

Post by mrazek22 » Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:45 pm

Koonitz wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:24 pm
mrazek22 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:11 pm
coldsteel wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 1:06 pm


The flyers are putting out a metric crapton of shots, should eat into blobs pretty easily.
Ok, so I am confused. If your units get stuck in melee with a mob, say a squad of 20 boys, you can't fire into them. Am I mixing up the editions? I still have yet to play my first game of 8th.
In 40k, if a unit is actively locked in combat, it cannot be shot at by ranged weapons IN THE SHOOTING PHASE (psychic powers are different and may target units actively locked in combat unless otherwise stated). There is one exception, which is pistols. If a unit is locked in combat, it may still fire with any "Pistol" weapons, but must target the closest unit when doing so (if not locked in combat, the unit fires normally, following all normal restrictions).

Though the discussion you quoted never mentioned being locked in combat, so it's not fair to assume they will be.

Second, if you want to assume they will be, always remember that you can fall back out of combat. Thus, if a blob charges a unit of infantry, those infantry can fall back, allowing other units to fire into the blob. Units with Fly can also shoot on the same turn they fall back, so a unit of assault marines, for instance, could fall back and then flamer/pistol said blob they were just engaged with. A flyer could fall back out of any combat it found itself in and still fire.
Pardon my continued confusion. If a unit falls back, it CANNOT shoot that turn. My point was, he has no meat shield. Against horde armies, which are extremely hot now, orks and nids and even chaos are desperate to get your units locked in melee, essentially shutting them down. When locked in Melee, they cannot be targeted, like you said.

So my question still stands. How do low unit high cost armies still defeat the horde melee army, when half his force is essentially out of play?

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Koonitz
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Re: [2000] - Blood Angels Sanguinary Wing

Post by Koonitz » Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:24 pm

mrazek22 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:45 pm
Pardon my continued confusion. If a unit falls back, it CANNOT shoot that turn. My point was, he has no meat shield. Against horde armies, which are extremely hot now, orks and nids and even chaos are desperate to get your units locked in melee, essentially shutting them down. When locked in Melee, they cannot be targeted, like you said.

So my question still stands. How do low unit high cost armies still defeat the horde melee army, when half his force is essentially out of play?
1) Units with the <Fly> keyword may still fire after falling back. As such, jump pack infantry, skimmers and flyers can all do so (and Blood Angels Dreadnoughts that have the Wings of Sanguinius psychic power cast on them, by the way). Flyers, of course, cannot even be charged except by things with Fly, so the opponent will need such a unit to lock them in combat in the first place.

2) You are correct that, otherwise, they'll tie your units up. Be aware of this fact and don't let him get units close enough to either charge multiple units, or consolidate into nearby units. Then, since his charging unit is now out of position, and (if you planned ahead) exposed to a significant amount of counter-fire, you punish him.

It's not perfect. As you said, horde armies do have an advantage right now, but it's how you counter them with elite armies. If you are afraid of multiple blobs hitting your line at the same time, then prepare for that. Plan to tar-pit one with a durable unit that can survive a turn or three. While they're held up, you focus fire on the other one. Use screening units to force him into a bad charge, and deep strike tactics to force him to split his forces, thus blunting his forward advance.

If you are fairly certain you won't have the power to destroy all of the hordes, then you play to the mission objective. Tar pit them as much as possible and use your smaller, faster units to capture objectives or take commanding battlefield positions.
Armies:
40k: Knights Cynosure Iron Hands successor chapter, House Terryn Questor Imperialis, Thousand Sons/Tzeentch Daemons
30k: Thousand Sons
Age of Sigmar: Sylvaneth, Disciples of Tzeentch

mrazek22
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Re: [2000] - Blood Angels Sanguinary Wing

Post by mrazek22 » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:12 am

Koonitz wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 5:24 pm
mrazek22 wrote:
Tue Jan 16, 2018 4:45 pm
snip
snip
Thanks for the advice! I've been really worried about building a SM army with the games I've seen. I've literally only seen 1 SM vs blobarmy game, and it went badly. I think it was DA vs Orks. But your advice really helps. Seems that even Tau can field a blob army now, of pure DPS long ranged stealth mobs. I get really worried when I see these.

Akaitsuki
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Re: [2000] - Blood Angels Sanguinary Wing

Post by Akaitsuki » Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:02 pm

Battle Report using list vs Tzeentch Daemons (pre FAQ)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grN9083kzUg

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